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Carlos Vinicius

Bedfordspurs said:
400% a good signing and gamble for the right team
I think he will end up at Leicester myself as he has good history with Rogers and Leicester want another striker
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I might be getting the wrong player, but did he not have a busted up with rodgers at celtic and was on social media calling rodgers a liar when he left celtic?
Might open the door for us.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Surely you have to qualify it vs the opposition
I mean midweek whenever he came in he was awful, truly awful (yeah no one was good)
And that was his first EL game vs a decent ish side
Yesterday his first half was poor but he scored a tap in, so did that right
Second half was much better all round
Scoring is big part of what strikers there to do but again there are levels of opposition to factor in for that. Against a decent side like vIlla yesterday his hold up play and control was really bad and that’s the best team he has faced. That’s the level to judge him on, not Marine in the cup
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I already did! If you remember, you scoffed 'Farmers league,' to which I replied, 'Of course!'

You said he does some things well but did not say what they were. So I asked what were those things were if they did not include getting into scoring positions and taking his chances (like he did yesterday). You still have not answered my question!

Instead all you have doen is complained that his hold up play is really bad. So I ask again, what is it you think he does well if not getting into good positions and taking his chances? And since we have seen relatively little of him at top level, at what level, pray, has he been doing these other things that you think he does well?
 
Spur of the moment said:
I already did! If you remember, you scoffed 'Farmers league,' to which I replied, 'Of course!'

You said he does some things well but did not say what they were. So I asked what were those things were if they did not include getting into scoring positions and taking his chances (like he did yesterday). You still have not answered my question!

Instead all you have doen is complained that his hold up play is really bad. So I ask again, what is it you think he does well if not getting into good positions and taking his chances? And since we have seen relatively little of him at top level, at what level, pray, has he been doing these other things that you think he does well?
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He defends well
He seems ok in and around the 18 yard area
I may be wrong but I think all his goals bar one have been 6 hard ish form goal
So we have a big guy who can’t hold the ball up well and isn’t a great passer so far but is a fox in the box...
that’s not a cover player for Kane IMO. That’s a very different type of player all be it they defend well (a good trait for any striker under Jose).
For us this season the lain is a great deal
For next season there is a lot he would have to step up on if we want to be better.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He defends well
He seems ok in and around the 18 yard area
I may be wrong but I think all his goals bar one have been 6 hard ish form goal
So we have a big guy who can’t hold the ball up well and isn’t a great passer so far but is a fox in the box...
that’s not a cover player for Kane IMO. That’s a very different type of player all be it they defend well (a good trait for any striker under Jose).
For us this season the lain is a great deal
For next season there is a lot he would have to step up on if we want to be better.
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He's a fox in the box that sits high (helps us press higher in pitch), He can play with his back to the goal (lots of modern strikers cannot, our AMs typically cannot)

Re the hold up the ball, he'll have chance to adapt with game time, I'd hold judgement for now.

As a slightly unfair point of reference, Zaha, Ings and Vinicius all have between 21-22 games with Vini on 10 goals, the other two on 9. The caveat is their games are mostly PL where Vini has been the cups, but the fact that they are reasonably close in ratio shows we are probably underrating him.
 
Raziel said:
He's a fox in the box that sits high (helps us press higher in pitch), He can play with his back to the goal (lots of modern strikers cannot, our AMs typically cannot)

Re the hold up the ball, he'll have chance to adapt with game time, I'd hold judgement for now.

As a slightly unfair point of reference, Zaha, Ings and Vinicius all have between 21-22 games with Vini on 10 goals, the other two on 9. The caveat is their games are mostly PL where Vini has been the cups, but the fact that they are reasonably close in ratio shows we are probably underrating him.
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Their goals are against a much higher calibre of side though
He didn’t score against any of the better sides in europa (didn’t start vs Zagreb)
To me it show she is doing ok against weak opposition. Can’t say anymore than that TBH
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think his touch was a bit loose tonight BUT in other games his hold up or bringing others into the game has been good.
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As you say it was a bit loose last night, but his first touch is good generally and on his debue ( forgot who is was against) he laid on two and his assist for Son was class.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He defends well
He seems ok in and around the 18 yard area
I may be wrong but I think all his goals bar one have been 6 hard ish form goal
So we have a big guy who can’t hold the ball up well and isn’t a great passer so far but is a fox in the box...
that’s not a cover player for Kane IMO. That’s a very different type of player all be it they defend well (a good trait for any striker under Jose).
For us this season the lain is a great deal
For next season there is a lot he would have to step up on if we want to be better.
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No one is claiming he is anywhere near Kane's level, but Tottenham have a history of buying strikers who turn out to be flops when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net (Frazier, Postiga, Soldado, Booth, Janssen). Too early to judge but at least he's made a start.
 
Spur of the moment said:
No one is claiming he is anywhere near Kane's level, but Tottenham have a history of buying strikers who turn out to be flops when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net (Frazier, Postiga, Soldado, Booth, Janssen). Too early to judge but at least he's made a start.
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Love some of those references
You don’t mention the successful ones
But he has made a start
And if the price is right we will buy him I’m sure
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Love some of those references
You don’t mention the successful ones
But he has made a start
And if the price is right we will buy him I’m sure
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Out of curiosity, who are the successful ones?

Because the best backup striker post having JD in rotation (so in last 7 years) that I can think of was Llorente and Vini has already done better than Llorente's best season with us.
 
Raziel said:
He's a fox in the box that sits high (helps us press higher in pitch), He can play with his back to the goal (lots of modern strikers cannot, our AMs typically cannot)

Re the hold up the ball, he'll have chance to adapt with game time, I'd hold judgement for now.

As a slightly unfair point of reference, Zaha, Ings and Vinicius all have between 21-22 games with Vini on 10 goals, the other two on 9. The caveat is their games are mostly PL where Vini has been the cups, but the fact that they are reasonably close in ratio shows we are probably underrating him.
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It also probably shows that you are underrating the huge level of difference in opposition between the Euro Also Rans Bowl competition and the PL.
 
Spur of the moment said:
No one is claiming he is anywhere near Kane's level, but Tottenham have a history of buying strikers who turn out to be flops when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net (Frazier, Postiga, Soldado, Booth, Janssen). Too early to judge but at least he's made a start.
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It was great to have a striker who was on the spot for Moura's pass. And we have signed plenty of strikers who would have missed that chance.
 
Raziel said:
Out of curiosity, who are the successful ones?

Because the best backup striker post having JD in rotation (so in last 7 years) that I can think of was Llorente and Vini has already done better than Llorente's best season with us.
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Again.... Had Llorente being leading the line against third rate european opposition he too probably would've got more goals. The problem (problem?) was that we were playing in the big boys league back then.

I'm not writing off Vini as he has some decent attributes. I think we need to judge him on some games against PL opposition though (i.e. see more of what we saw at times yesterday).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Again.... Had Llorente being leading the line against third rate european opposition he too probably would've got more goals. The problem (problem?) was that we were playing in the big boys league back then.

I'm not writing off Vini as he has some decent attributes. I think we need to judge him on some games against PL opposition though (i.e. see more of what we saw at times yesterday).
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I'm actually not mate, what my argument is

- Better to stick with a guy that has been about as successful as any backup we have had for 7+ years
- I think the risk in his ability to step up opposition is much lower than trying from scratch again, waiting 20 games to figures out if you fudged up (when honestly backup striker is very low on priorities)

You say it's easy to score against lower opposition, challenge is a lot of our backups didn't, so at least in that Vini has a headstart. You might say Llorente didn't play in farmers league, but his number of gaols in a season for Spurs in the Pl is exactly the same as Vini, not bricking on Llorente because he was a proven player on back end of season but just highlighting the point.

In my opinion (and that's all it is), the guy has done enough to earn himself a shot
 
Raziel said:
Out of curiosity, who are the successful ones?

Because the best backup striker post having JD in rotation (so in last 7 years) that I can think of was Llorente and Vini has already done better than Llorente's best season with us.
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Sorry... the post he made wasnt backup strikers was it?
Llorente was an odd one for us as he didn’t get many goals but his game brought out the best in some others at the time
And he would have scored at least as many as Vinny has against these teams
 
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