Ange in or out?

[tommysvr]

I was at the Utd game. Even at 3-0 up our players were rushing to take throw-ins and goal kicks. The frantic nature of how we tend to play games encourages errors imo (as well as injury). It also allows opposition teams to think they are still in a game, even when they are 2 or 3 goals behind.

If Ange is to succeed with us he will have to adapt how he plays. Results and performances over what is now a substantial period make it hard to argue against this.

People keep saying things like this and I'll keep repeating the same thing back. We've won more games by 3 or more goals than we've given up 2 or 3 goal leads.

Also, I don't know a Premier League team that stops and gives up. Even when being comfortably beaten, like we did to Southampton, chances are still created. 1 goal and you're back in it. Hence the "most dangerous lead in football" line. It's not unique to Spurs whatsoever.

But I wouldn't expect you to see anything positive. I literally don't know if I've ever read a postitive comment from you on here. No hyperbole...like literally don't know if I've ever seen one. But that might just be because I skip over most of your stuff now.

 

[DubSpur]

And how many goals came from that?

I agree with part of it. I posted this about Porro against Liverpool (which you liked): https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/threads/omt-tottenham-hotspur-vs-liverpool.12100/page-49#post-1851807

As I said there, I think the risk vs reward will work more often than not...once we have a healthier team. But maybe I'm just overly postitive on things as a counter to all the negativity I read on how brick we are.

The goals don't have to come directly from it. It's creating more pressure on the defence and at some point it's going to crack.
We're not brick, but we're not good either. If Ange tweaked things I think we could be much better than currently. Obviously injuries are a factor in that as well.

 

[Bullet]

Also, I don't know a Premier League team that stops and gives up. Even when being comfortably beaten, like we did to Southampton, chances are still created. 1 goal and you're back in it. Hence the "most dangerous lead in football" line. It's not unique to Spurs whatsoever.

I think it's important to kill the crowd atmosphere, suck the energy out of the stadium and gradually the opposition will stop trying so hard. By taking time over restarts, and by recycling the ball a bit, the crowd goes flat.

(Not taking so long that the crowd gets vexed and starts up again).

Whereas we keep the tempo up, get the ball back in play, surge forwards and lose it and then sprint back, all the while encouraging the crowd to shout and scream and keep feeding energy into the opposition.

 

[Baleforce]

I think it's important to kill the crowd atmosphere, suck the energy out of the stadium and gradually the opposition will stop trying so hard. By taking time over restarts, and by recycling the ball a bit, the crowd goes flat.

(Not taking so long that the crowd gets vexed and starts up again).

Whereas we keep the tempo up, get the ball back in play, surge forwards and lose it and then sprint back, all the while encouraging the crowd to shout and scream and keep feeding energy into the opposition.

Yeah, you get a 3-0 lead and it should be all about the clock, make it as boring as possible, get the ball out of play, make it stop start.

The last thing you should be doing with such a lead is playing football, football is the enemy at that point, kill it.

 

[Raziel]

Yeah, you get a 3-0 lead and it should be all about the clock, make it as boring as possible, get the ball out of play, make it stop start.

The last thing you should be doing with such a lead is playing football, football is the enemy at that point, kill it.

This is the point Ange seems to struggle with

It also makes me think the hardest part in football is not getting people to attack 100% or sit in low block 100% but to switch, be able to overwhelm your opponent, get 2-0, 3-0 up and then close it down.

 

[Raziel]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine (a)
Liverpool (h) - LCup
Tamworth (a) - FACup
Arsenal (a)
Everton (a)
Hoffenheim (a) - EL
Leicester (h)
Elfsborg (h) - EL

You have to admit, it will be intriguing to see how Ange is perceived at the end of the month after this sequence of fixtures.

It could be anything from hero to P45 in my opinion.

It's actually the first 4 of those at this point

- I could see 3 losses, and if there are 3 losses I think he's gone (fans will absolutely lose it if both Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Arsenal pump us)

Said it before, think he's in trouble, he needed to win the last two to take pressure off, now he's got to figure out how to win the next 3, do that and you will get a pass for the Scum and then you could try for 4 on the bounce at the end of which you should have more of squad, new reinforcements available.

 

[Muttley]

It's actually the first 4 of those at this point

- I could see 3 losses, and if there are 3 losses I think he's gone (fans will absolutely lose it if both Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Arsenal pump us)

Said it before, think he's in trouble, he needed to win the last two to take pressure off, now he's got to figure out how to win the next 3, do that and you will get a pass for the Scum and then you could try for 4 on the bounce at the end of which you should have more of squad, new reinforcements available.

Yeah, totally agree that the magnitude of defeat has been a major deciding factor for prior managers at Spurs. So far though, an Ange team has only lost by more than one goal once this season and that was against top of the league.

If he leaves in January there will be a forever "shoulda, woulda, coulda" argument in his favour due to the mitigating circumstances.

Just like with the Carabao Cup final, fans forget that Mason INCREASED our chances of winning that game. If the toxic Jose has been rightfully thrown out of our club a couple of months earlier then Mason would have had even more chance of being a winning underdog. You never hear that perspective.

 

[Baleforce]

Yeah, totally agree that the magnitude of defeat has been a major deciding factor for prior managers at Spurs. So far though, an Ange team has only lost by more than one goal once this season and that was against top of the league.

If he leaves in January there will be a forever "shoulda, woulda, coulda" argument in his favour due to the mitigating circumstances.

Just like with the Carabao Cup final, fans forget that Mason INCREASED our chances of winning that game. If the toxic Jose has been rightfully thrown out of our club a couple of months earlier then Mason would have had even more chance of being a winning underdog. You never hear that perspective.

Jose could have had a 5 a side team, and he still would have had more chance of beating City than Mason did.

 

[Baleforce]

If I was Ange, I'd bin off the cups, play every kid he can, we'd need to focus on getting points in the league.

But, he's wedded himself to that stupid second season trophy quote and I don't think he has the balls to go back on it and focus on what actually matters.

 

[Muttley]

Jose could have had a 5 a side team, and he still would have had more chance of beating City than Mason did.

Jose only a 5-a-side team anyway. He'd lost the rest of the dressing room with his narcissism.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If I was Ange, I'd bin off the cups, play every kid he can, we'd need to focus on getting points in the league.

But, he's wedded himself to that stupid second season trophy quote and I don't think he has the balls to go back on it and focus on what actually matters.

We're only getting into Europe through the EL. After making sure we get over the 40 point line, EL has to be the priority this season now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I was at the Utd game. Even at 3-0 up our players were rushing to take throw-ins and goal kicks. The frantic nature of how we tend to play games encourages errors imo (as well as injury). It also allows opposition teams to think they are still in a game, even when they are 2 or 3 goals behind.

If Ange is to succeed with us he will have to adapt how he plays. Results and performances over what is now a substantial period make it hard to argue against this.

I was there as well and I disagree with you. We were not rushing anything at 3-0.

 

[Muttley]

We're only getting into Europe through the EL. After making sure we get over the 40 point line, EL has to be the priority this season now.

Personally, I'm gonna pretend you're wrong for a while longer

I might reconsider your perspective after the Leicester game.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The goals don't have to come directly from it. It's creating more pressure on the defence and at some point it's going to crack.
We're not brick, but we're not good either. If Ange tweaked things I think we could be much better than currently. Obviously injuries are a factor in that as well.

Going long and the ball coming back at us immediately also creates pressure on the defence. Forster just made a couple of poor decisions/mistakes. I really don't think those goals were systemic issues, just mistakes.

 

[Muttley]

Going long and the ball coming back at us immediately also creates pressure on the defence. Forster just made a couple of poor decisions/mistakes. I really don't think those goals were systemic issues, just mistakes.

So if they weren't systemic, how come Forster would have naturally put his foot through those balls for the last 20 years of his career?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yeah, totally agree that the magnitude of defeat has been a major deciding factor for prior managers at Spurs. So far though, an Ange team has only lost by more than one goal once this season and that was against top of the league.

If he leaves in January there will be a forever "shoulda, woulda, coulda" argument in his favour due to the mitigating circumstances.

Just like with the Carabao Cup final, fans forget that Mason INCREASED our chances of winning that game. If the toxic Jose has been rightfully thrown out of our club a couple of months earlier then Mason would have had even more chance of being a winning underdog. You never hear that perspective.

Laughing at your last paragraph there.... Mason massively decreased our chances of winning. While Mourinho was (is) a narcissistic has-been who should've been sacked many weeks before the Cup final took place, by the time we were on the eve of that game he had to stay. He has an excellent record of winning finals. He also wanted to rest key players for the midweek game against Southampton so that we were as fresh as possible to have the best chance of winning the final at the weekend. Just the very fact that Levy replaced Mourinho with a yes man who picked his strongest team for the midweek game reduced our chances of winning it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If I was Ange, I'd bin off the cups, play every kid he can, we'd need to focus on getting points in the league.

But, he's wedded himself to that stupid second season trophy quote and I don't think he has the balls to go back on it and focus on what actually matters.

Winning trophies should be the main aim for any manager of THFC. We should be going all out for the Cups.

 

[Finney Is Back]

So if they weren't systemic, how come Forster would have naturally put his foot through those balls for the last 20 years of his career?

Because he played for teams set up for a long ball football with long-ball players? Wasn't he trying to go long for the second mistake anyway but just took far too long to actually kick it?

 

[lurker of old]

I think the issue of slowing down the pace of the game - or not - is a genuine one. Interesting that the stats have endorsed what I thought i had seen. Once you have a lead, look to increase it but also take your time with goal kicks etc, don't rush them. I'd much rather have some "game management", to run down the clock, than lose a lead as we did against Wolves (though Maddison being a useless so and so may have contributed to that).

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine (a)
Liverpool (h) - LCup
Tamworth (a) - FACup
Arsenal (a)
Everton (a)
Hoffenheim (a) - EL
Leicester (h)
Elfsborg (h) - EL

You have to admit, it will be intriguing to see how Ange is perceived at the end of the month after this sequence of fixtures.

It could be anything from hero to P45 in my opinion.

I reckon we'll be exactly as we are now
11th
Still in the LC
Still in the EL
Still in the FA Cup