Ange in or out?

[Bedfordspurs]

The Palmer air shot won’t be in the xG as he didn’t get a shot off, just an example.

Yep
So his air shot, which wasn’t an actual shot, didn’t count
That’s normal right.
It’s like when Gutter Boy I think was claiming offside goals for Roma count negatively against Forster because he didn’t save them

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The eye test and scoreline tells us that we went 2-0 up and collapsed. we can't keep trying to use stats to massage the reality of yet another collapse.
In future, we will have be 4-0 up and half-time against a rival .like Chelsea to feel we have a good chance to get a point?

If we/Ange wants to improve and move forward there has to be better realistic reflection

The eye test though is exactly why anyone watching thought we should have beaten Lestah and Saudi Sportswashing Machine
All the ball and the chances
But it doesn’t always work like that does it. That’s the realistic part
How often does a shot like palmers hit a defender and land at the feet of an unmarked man (yes there was a few of their players there). If that was us it would land with son who would trap it like a bouncing bomb and they would counter us.

 

[Baleforce]

Yep
So his air shot, which wasn’t an actual shot, didn’t count
That’s normal right.
It’s like when Gutter Boy I think was claiming offside goals for Roma count negatively against Forster because he didn’t save them

Absolutely.

But was still a huge chance we conceded.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Absolutely.

But was still a huge chance we conceded.

Can’t be a chance if he doesn’t even take a shot
It’s a swing of a leg
The one after it that you did they had was a chance

 

[Baleforce]

Can’t be a chance if he doesn’t even take a shot
It’s a swing of a leg
The one after it that you did they had was a chance

It’s not a shot, but it’s a chance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s not a shot, but it’s a chance.

It’s an air kick

 

[glorygloryeze]

The eye test though is exactly why anyone watching thought we should have beaten Lestah and Saudi Sportswashing Machine
All the ball and the chances
But it doesn’t always work like that does it. That’s the realistic part
How often does a shot like palmers hit a defender and land at the feet of an unmarked man (yes there was a few of their players there). If that was us it would land with son who would trap it like a bouncing bomb and they would counter us.

That last bit is brutal

 

[thfcsteff]

100% agree on all of this. The injuries are the key to all of this IMO…

You are absolutely right! We brought new people into strength & conditioning, and clearly, it isn't working. Combine this with a lot of young players whose bodies are still developing.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The eye test though is exactly why anyone watching thought we should have beaten Lestah and Saudi Sportswashing Machine
All the ball and the chances
But it doesn’t always work like that does it. That’s the realistic part
How often does a shot like palmers hit a defender and land at the feet of an unmarked man (yes there was a few of their players there). If that was us it would land with son who would trap it like a bouncing bomb and they would counter us.

The eye test unfortunately tells us that we are often an unorganised mess with rarely any semblance of calm...we are now reduced to so many 'what ifs' when reviewing how we lost a game..

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah, I think his formation is going to stay as a 4-3-3 but I'm ever hopeful that he adapts around it. One game springs to mind and that was City in the cup. We played in a way that stopped Venom from having much to do when we had the goal lead. We nullified them and showed a lot of maturity. What we didn't do in that game was go all gung-ho and find ourselves all sprinting back, and being totally stretched. We mostly had our full-backs as full-backs and we had both Bents and Biss working in tandem in the second half. We actually looked like we could counter attack them as a deliberate strategy.

It's why I find Ange so confusing. I get the feeling he knows what he should be doing but either chooses not to or can't get it out of the players.

He does, indeed, change within the formation and philosophy.

 

[Mikey10]

This is a really excellent listen.

(I haven’t got to the TGIAG podcast yet, but it’s next on my list @thfcsteff!)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That last bit is brutal

But true
Let’s be honest

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The eye test unfortunately tells us that we are often an unorganised mess with rarely any semblance of calm...we are now reduced to so many 'what ifs' when reviewing how we lost a game..

We can review many games
But the way Chelsea dominated was exactly how we dominate too
They did it better better and got lucky with the ref and our stupidity

 

[Raziel]

You are absolutely right! We brought new people into strength & conditioning, and clearly, it isn't working. Combine this with a lot of young players whose bodies are still developing.

Either the conditioning isn't working or the ask is simply above the possibilities of a team without significant rotation.

Ange has two real questions at this point
- Is this model physically possible with a small squad?
- Is the concept of not having a "manage the game mode" where you simply hold the line for 15-20 minutes to ensure a result, possible at this level?

 

[glorygloryeze]

We can review many games
But the way Chelsea dominated was exactly how we dominate too
They did it better better and got lucky with the ref and our stupidity

The issue for me is: i can't remember the last league game we were defensively comfortable or at least looked at ease and not ready to concede at a moment's notice when our high-line is bypassed. And no, i don't really count the Emirates Marketing Project game tbh

 

[glorygloryeze]

Either the conditioning isn't working or the ask is simply above the possibilities of a team without significant rotation.

Ange has two real questions at this point
- Is this model physically possible with a small squad?

We have seen with Poch at Soton and Bielsa in multiple clubs, probably not long-term

- Is the concept of not having a "manage the game mode" where you simply hold the line for 15-20 minutes to ensure a result, possible at this level?

Not if you want to be amongst the top teams and certainly not if you aspire to have multiple games in multiple competitions

 

[Mikey10]

Either the conditioning isn't working or the ask is simply above the possibilities of a team without significant rotation.

Ange has two real questions at this point
- Is this model physically possible with a small squad?
- Is the concept of not having a "manage the game mode" where you simply hold the line for 15-20 minutes to ensure a result, possible at this level?

Exactly the points covered in The View From The Lane podcast linked above.

* We are trying to play in a way that’s never been attempted before in the PL
* There is probably a reason why it’s never been attempted before (i.e. it’s probably not possible)
* Some try to compare our approach to City’s, but they are masters at slowing a game down and holding the ball to allow for recuperation
* When our approach does work (e.g. in the United and City games this season) it involves running stats which are unsustainable for a team playing twice per week
* The very small chance of this style of football working in the PL would probably require two interchangeable players of the same level for each position. That’s difficult to facilitate, even if our owners would fund it

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The issue for me is: i can't remember the last league game we were defensively comfortable or at least looked at ease and not ready to concede at a moment's notice when our high-line is bypassed. And no, i don't really count the Emirates Marketing Project game tbh

Chelsea weren’t comfortable
No team is this year

 

[glorygloryeze]

Chelsea weren’t comfortable
No team is this year

We don't play the likes of Chelsea every week, i'm more worried about the games against most of the other non-top6/7 teams in the league...and for us it's nothing new going way back to midway last season

 

[Gutter Boy]

We have seen with Poch at Soton and Bielsa in multiple clubs, probably not long-term



Not if you want to be amongst the top teams and certainly not if you aspire to have multiple games in multiple competitions

Poch learned. With us there was always a particular 3rd that we'd up the tempo to blitz the opponents away, while we played within ourselves to other two.