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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 62 34.1%

  • Out

    Votes: 120 65.9%
  • Total voters
    182
Robspur12 said:
1st 2 lines correct; last line incorrect.
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So you’d like us to fire the manager who won our first European trophy in 30 years, our first trophy of any kind in 17 years, the guy who’s won in literally every job he’s had…all so we can replace him the bloke from Bournemouth who’s got a 39% win record and won the Cypriot Super Cup in 2018.

The grass is always greener and all that.
 
tommysvr said:
So you’d like us to fire the manager who won our first European trophy in 30 years, our first trophy of any kind in 17 years, the guy who’s won in literally every job he’s had…all so we can replace him the bloke from Bournemouth who’s got a 39% win record and won the Cypriot Super Cup in 2018.
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Yes because keeping Ange would not be in the best interests of the club’s future. I am sure I don’t need to remind you that the last trophy winning managers were George Graham and Juande Ramos. Winning a cup competition does not mean you are the right person for the club.
 
Robspur12 said:
Yes because keeping Ange would not be in the best interests of the club’s future. I am sure I don’t need to remind you that the last trophy winning managers were George Graham and Juande Ramos. Winning a cup competition does not mean you are the right person for the club.
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Of course it doesn’t. Replacing those two managers didn’t exactly bring success either (I don’t consider finishing 4th and making the CL quarters with Harry success).
 
tommysvr said:
Of course it doesn’t. Replacing those two managers didn’t exactly bring success either (I don’t consider finishing 4th and making the CL quarters with Harry success).
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I would love a manager who will win a trophy and that be the basis of sustained success for the club rather than the trophy being a one off and having to wait 18 years for another. If we stay with Ange, imho, it will be the latter and we are now in a better position to achieve the former.
 
Robspur12 said:
I am really conflicted tbh. I would love a trophy. But if it means him staying on, I think I would choose him leaving first. The league is where it's at ultimately and his inability to deal with that speaks volumes. With a better manager, our improved recruitment and bigger spending power, I think the future is bright.

I fear if Ange wins the EL everyone will be on a high and forget how dreadful the season has been otherwise. Like what happened to Ten Hag after the FA cup win last season. But I so want to win the EL too!
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Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...
 
I will forget everything if he wins the EL. Clean slate. That being said, if he is not in the top half by Christmas I would sack him then. If he fails to win the EL it's a no brainer. Get him out the next day. Then we can focus on Levy's dumbass ideas of only signing young and mostly unproven players. We have an embarrassingly low salary cap. In every business or sport the best talents will have the biggest salary. How can you convince a star player to sign for your team if you don't pay a big salary? You won't. He is not even trying. He is trying to act like a fn feeder club, give long contracts with low salary, renew the promising ones and hope they will not reject your small wages after proving themselves. Because you want to fight Pool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. even United, but you don't want to pay same level salaries. You think those people are fools and you are smarter. They have won the league and you are 16th, who is the smart one now?
 
There is absolutely no scenario where Ange should stay.

It’s a measure of the disillusionment in the football club that even on the cusp of success there is no real desire to keep this bloke.

As amazing as winning the Europa League would be ( and let’s face it under Ange it’s not even a given we can navigate next thursday evening in Norway), the reality is it’s a weak competition with an amazing prize at the end and a great day out for the fans.

it does nothing to negate the damage Ange has done.
 
tommysvr said:
So you’d like us to fire the manager who won our first European trophy in 30 years, our first trophy of any kind in 17 years, the guy who’s won in literally every job he’s had…all so we can replace him the bloke from Bournemouth who’s got a 39% win record and won the Cypriot Super Cup in 2018.

The grass is always greener and all that.
Click to expand...
the bloke from Bournemoith regardless of wether Ange wins a european trophy or not, is in all likelihood a better manager than Ange and has a higher ceiling given what he has demonstrated so far in the Remier League compared to Ange.



That’s not to say he’s the right manager for us.
 
tommysvr said:
Ange finished 5th in his first season. Bournemouth are 10th.
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ange manages tottenham hotspur
iraola manages bournemouth

ange got fifth because of his first ten games, after that he has been a disaster.

it’s a fair assumption that Iraola in his relatively short managerial career has shown far more promise than Ange, given he has done very well in two major leagues with smaller clubs.

I understand that you don’t agree with that as well
 
It is not a sign of incompetence for a manager to finish in a high position then finish in a lower position next season. That is my view. The below picture was David Moyes in his first stint at Everton. I remember Everton sticking by him.


The key thing for me is if there is growth. Levy would make that call. Next season for me is when I look at his performance.
 
Robspur12 said:
I am really conflicted tbh. I would love a trophy. But if it means him staying on, I think I would choose him leaving first. The league is where it's at ultimately and his inability to deal with that speaks volumes. With a better manager, our improved recruitment and bigger spending power, I think the future is bright.

I fear if Ange wins the EL everyone will be on a high and forget how dreadful the season has been otherwise. Like what happened to Ten Hag after the FA cup win last season. But I so want to win the EL too!
Click to expand...
Fair enough, personally regardless of manager I would take the trophy first as they hardly grow on trees for us! In your 'worst case' scenario and he does stay on due to winning the EL, I don't think he would get the season if things were shaping up like this one - more likely until November/December time and then if looking like not being in contention for Europe would look to change.

For sure the future should be bright regardless though....
 
thfcsteff said:
Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...
Click to expand...
I completely respect your right to hold these views Steff, but I have to say I feel somewhat sad reading them. Allow me to explain…

Firstly, I feel sad that you feel you can’t get to the final should we get there for the reasons you outline above. That’s your prerogative and I can understand you feeling that way, but it’s still sad that you don’t think you’d be able to derive joy from potentially a wonderful experience, particularly for someone that Spurs mean so very much to.

Secondly, and the main point I’d look to constructively challenge you on, is about the so-called ‘joy thieves’.

For transparency, I’m not sure if I fall into this camp or not, but I’ve certainly found myself taking very little joy out of this season, including this run to the semis.

I’m not going to get into the reasons in detail, but broadly, and is a point I think we’ve agreed on in the past, football is a ‘journey’, not a destination. And, for me, this journey has been, well, brick. The issues with this season have been discussed at length here so I won’t bother to get into them again, but this season has sapped the life out of me as a Spurs supporting fan. To be clear, this isn’t just about Ange and how he’s lead the team, but all the polarised discourse and negativity surrounding the club, leadership direction etc..,

I know you and Milo have also been talking a lot recently about football being about the ‘moments’, but this is where is think our feelings diverge. Moments minus a journey and they’re meaningless. Poch’s moments meant something because of the journey we were on, I think on that we can agree, but the moments this season appear to be built on sand. For me, at least…

Happiness is, I guess, a choice and all that but what I’m looking to slightly challenge you on is by labelling people ‘joy thieves’ is potentially in itself adding to the polarised nature of the discourse. I would venture that there are a significant number of people that are not just shouting at the proverbial cloud, but are genuinely concerned about the direction of our great club and just don’t feel the ‘connection’ at the moment.

Obviously, your feelings are your own, but I also realise you are a great believer in society demonstrating more empathy and as an influential voice here, considering that there’s a vast spectrum of views, it’s something maybe to ponder on.

Anyway, I felt I had to get this down as it’s been something on my mind for a while. I hope you take this with the spirit with which it’s intended, which is wholly positive in intent!

COYS!
 
Robspur12 said:
I would love a manager who will win a trophy and that be the basis of sustained success for the club rather than the trophy being a one off and having to wait 18 years for another. If we stay with Ange, imho, it will be the latter and we are now in a better position to achieve the former.
Click to expand...
We can barely even manage the one off under ENIC, so if we actually happen to win a big trophy this year then the manager that helps us win it should at least get the chance to see whether he can turn it into sustained success.
 
thfcsteff said:
Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...
Click to expand...
For once, I'm on the same wavelength! Trophies are few and far between when you're a Spurs fan, what's the point of spoiling a great cup run with thoughts of next season? To be honest, I didn't really rate our performances against Eintracht but if we have to win and - on top of that - entertain ever single fan on Earth, then we're going to feel miserable for a long, long time.

I hope whoever calls the shot at the club decides to pull the trigger at the end of the season, but as a fan, you can't even know for sure if they wouldn't keep Postecoglou even if we failed to win the EL. A lot of people on this very forum defend(ed) the idea that we should be doing a 'Ferguson' and keep him no matter what, because success will eventually come if you stick long enough with the manager.

While I don't agree with that at all, it could happen that someone feels the same at the club. If that's the case, then why not enjoy a European trophy in the meantime?

This isn't a side I will remember fondly, the way I remember the League Cup winning team of 07/08, or even the League Cup winning team of 97/98 and certainly not the way I remember the FA Cup winning team of 90/91. But I think I'd certainly remember fondly watching the club I've supported (often from afar) since I was a kid winning a European trophy.

Poor decisions can hurt the club; winning can't.
 
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