Ange in or out?

[scaramanga]

Yes they were. Sherwood had done a good job in decreasing the average age of the team while improving THFCs league position from 7th to 6th after taking over from AVB (not to mention making the football a thousand times more watchable)

When you're backing Sherwood to do anything more than wipe his own arse without getting covered in brick, you know there's a problem with the position you've taken.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Gallagher was never coming here in a million years. Don't think Neto was either once Chelsea were in for him. Both agents likely made noises to keep us as an option while Chelsea were negotiating both deals.

Both players were more than happy to come to Spurs. Though of course to get them you have to give them packages commensurate with what they will be offered elsewhere.

 

[Kompakted]

Both players were more than happy to come to Spurs. Though of course to get them you have to give them packages commensurate with what they will be offered elsewhere.

Come on, we offer what they want, they go back to Athletico and Chelsea and it gets matched. It was clear as day we weren't their first choice.

 

[Finney Is Back]

So you would have preferred Sherwood to stay instead of hiring either Poch or Van Gaal??

In hindsight I think (hope?) all would agree Pochettino was the very best manager we could've ever hoped to have got in (though interestingly enough he was actually second choice to Van Gaal).

I don't think the club saw Sherwood as anything other than a caretaker to get the team though to the end of the season after AVB was sacked.

Without the beauty of hindsight and now knowing what a fantastic job Pochettino did at Spurs I do think Sherwood probably deserved to be retained the following season after he came in, fixed a bunch of issues that AVB had created and earned us a Europa spot.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Eh? So being defensively sound equals "low block" football??
I suppose in that case you don't think Poch or Redknapp's sides were defensively sound?
Maybe time to realise football tactics aren't so black and white?

Both Pochettino and Redknapp's teams were reasonably defensively sound, though not hugely (I don't think that was the strong point of either team really)

Also we got rid of both managers, Pochettino because apparently he wasn't good enough (I could be wrong here but I think you were one of the ones that wanted him out and Mourinho in?)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Personally, I'm not worried about low salary levels at Spurs. It was always going to come down because our squad was incredibly sub-optimal and we offloaded high wage earners like Kane. We're almost through that phase now and you'll see wages go up again as new contracts are signed. Salary budgets is not the reason we buy young either. We buy young as it makes sense.

Ange needs perspective where he finds himself now. He knows he hasn't got a small squad or a lack of depth. He has the same size squad as every other club. What he needs to ask himself is can a normal sized squad stay healthy and perform in his tactical system for a 60 game season? They couldn't for a 41 game season, so what's changed? Then he'll realise that it is himself that needs to change. He needs to stop making this squad smaller than it actually is. He needs to trust more players, especially from the bench. He also needs to tweak his tactics slightly to manage the player workload better. That is why he earns the big bucks.

Not convinced he does to be honest. At least not compared to do the other clubs playing in Europe. I think we have space for another 3 or 4 players aged over 21 in our PL squad.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Come on, we offer what they want, they go back to Athletico and Chelsea and it gets matched. It was clear as day we weren't their first choice.

So you're accepting our fate as an also ran? Never to be able to compete with Athletico or Chelsea?

 

[Kompakted]

So you're accepting our fate as an also ran? Never to be able to compete with Athletico or Chelsea?

No I'm accepting that players agents and players always have their preferences and you're not the only club in the market for a player. So "pay the money Levy" ignores the fact that you can pay the money, then the goal posts get moved or someone else pays the money and they simply preferred that destination. Alan Sugar paid the money for Solskjaer then pi**ed him and his agent off so much during talks they pulled out. It's win some you lose some. Alex Ferguson talks about losing Bale to Spurs as being one of the ones that got away during his career. We stole a march on the whole of Europe for Modric also.

 

[Finney Is Back]

No I'm accepting that players agents and players always have their preferences and you're not the only club in the market for a player. So "pay the money Levy" ignores the fact that you can pay the money, then the goal posts get moved or someone else pays the money and they simply preferred that destination. Alan Sugar paid the money for Solskjaer then pi**ed him and his agent off so much during talks they pulled out. It's win some you lose some. Alex Ferguson talks about losing Bale to Spurs as being one of the ones that got away during his career. We stole a march on the whole of Europe for Modric also.

Why did the two players in question prefer those other clubs?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Both Pochettino and Redknapp's teams were reasonably defensively sound, though not hugely (I don't think that was the strong point of either team really)

Both teams had good balance between attack and defence, especially Pochettino's who possibly had both the best striker in our time and the best CB partnership. Imo, both of them had much better balance between attacking and defending than Ange has shown.

Also we got rid of both managers, Pochettino because apparently he wasn't good enough (I could be wrong here but I think you were one of the ones that wanted him out and Mourinho in?)

I was resigned to his time ending from the summer that year, so wehn he was sacked for me it was sadly inevitable...

I wasn't specifically wanting him to be replaced by Jose though as he was by then, imo, already a busted flush. But, he was at least a manager i could see the owner's logic for employing as he did have a recent record of winning a trophy - IF he had wads of cash to spend...so naturally i though getting him meant we were going to act like we had just increased our spending power, i mean why else would we hire Jose, right? Right?

Of course, we all know the act of 'winging it' and a charade that turned out to be...

 

[glorygloryeze]

In hindsight I think (hope?) all would agree Pochettino was the very best manager we could've ever hoped to have got in (though interestingly enough he was actually second choice to Van Gaal).

I don't think the club saw Sherwood as anything other than a caretaker to get the team though to the end of the season after AVB was sacked.

Without the beauty of hindsight and now knowing what a fantastic job Pochettino did at Spurs I do think Sherwood probably deserved to be retained the following season after he came in, fixed a bunch of issues that AVB had created and earned us a Europa spot.

Each to his own, i guess.
He had decent results on the field and at least the goals were flowing much more again.
However, the fact he often got schooled by teams further up the food-chain and those we'd see as our rivals, plus his generally awful conduct meant if we were serious as a club it could only ever have been a stop gap, so i don't think anyone who wanted/expected to see the back of him at the end of that season could be called "knee-jerk"


Anyone who thinks Ange's time is up now is no more 'knee-jerk' than anyone who thought it was time for AVB to go when he did...

 

[Raziel]

Both players were more than happy to come to Spurs. Though of course to get them you have to give them packages commensurate with what they will be offered elsewhere.

Gallagher was never about his/our choice, would have been a huge PR hit, annoyance with Chelsea fans if they sold their HG club captain to Spurs
Neto was just too much of an injury risk

One wasn't even our choice, the other logically made sense to walk away (Neto in Ange's system would never get our of training)

Doesn't mean they weren't other players we should have gone for.

 

[Kandi1977]

The last time we fired a manager we were 4th in the table.

Is 11th more palatable because we're often in entertaining games and the manager is eager to cop the blame?

I'm not even necessarily Ange out, maybe we'll wait till a cup final and give Mason another crack at it.

It's more palatable because it's stupid to sack managers every 18 months! That will bring us absolutely nowhere! The only way to succeed for us, will be through continuity. Chopping and changing every time there's a bump in the road, only harms us more in the long run!

 

[Kandi1977]

I would be happy taking that position re the focus on younger players and developing if I actually saw some evidence of there being some developing of youngsters taking place

You don't think they train? Took years before Pep started really using Foden, despite him being one of the best prospects ever. Chill out and relax. Things don't develop over night! It takes fudging time!

 

[billyiddo]

My point was that Arteta was as equally rancid with games lost as Ange but was afforded time and money, they are now more consistent given they have increased quality and depth, something we should be aspiring to achieve which would benefit our manager too IMO

What in your opinion are our goals?

To bed in the tactics and to continue develop the team - with a target of the European places in the league.

 

[Kandi1977]

The short sightedness of this day and age.... My word

 

[Finney Is Back]

Each to his own, i guess.
He had decent results on the field and at least the goals were flowing much more again.
However, the fact he often got schooled by teams further up the food-chain and those we'd see as our rivals, plus his generally awful conduct meant if we were serious as a club it could only ever have been a stop gap, so i don't think anyone who wanted/expected to see the back of him at the end of that season could be called "knee-jerk"


Anyone who thinks Ange's time is up now is no more 'knee-jerk' than anyone who thought it was time for AVB to go when he did...

Regarding your last sentence.... One thing I would state here is that AVB was sacked after we'd had a relatively stable period (stable for us anyway) with Redknapp in charge of the club. Sacking AVB after 16 months or whatever it was after having Redknapp in for 4 years prior to that was going to lead to our third manager in over 5 years

Whereas over a similar five year period just gone we've had Pochettino, Mourinho, Mason, Nuno, Conte, Stellini, Mason, Postegcoglou. Sacking Postecoglou would see us bringing in our 9th manager in 5 years and that's before you consider that we'd likely need some sort of caretaker before getting the manager in.

 

[Bishop]

We are bottom half.

How log on the defensive framework? He's had 18 months; how much longer do you feel he needs to get players doing the defensive basics? (Genuine question.)

End of the season is when I'll rejudge his progress or lack of. My more pressing concern in that regard is I have no belief in ENIC's ability to bring in a better coach or give them the tools they would require.

 

[Bishop]

Why did the two players in question prefer those other clubs?

Ambition? Likelihood of achieving something significant? Better wages? A combination of all three?

 

[Bishop]

Regarding your last sentence.... On thing I would state here is that AVB was sacked after we'd had a relatively stable period (stable for us anyway) with Redknapp in charge of the club. Sacking AVB after 16 months or whatever it was after having Redknapp in for 4 years prior to that was going to lead to our third manager in over 5 years

Whereas over a similar five year period just gone we've had Pochettino, Mourinho, Mason, Nuno, Conte, Stellini, Mason, Postegcoglou. Sacking Postecoglou would see us bringing 9th manager in 5 years and that's before you consider that we'd likely need some sort of caretaker before getting the manager in.

Aka the Chelsea model without the success.