AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[DMac]

The back four is set perfectly for a 4-3-3 though. You need a pacey attacking full back to overlap the inside forward. If we're going for Bale on the right, than Walker is a pacey attacking full back.

The midfield, lots of people want us to sign a creative mid, however our strongest midfield pairing this season was Sandro Dembele. When together they were the best in the league and i don't want to break that partnership up, which is why three in the middle adds needed creativity without weakening our defensive resolve.

Spurs seem at their best using that pace, however it became far too easy for opposition sides to shut us down by dropping deep. Then we have no ability to get past them. We haven't been that much of a pacey side this season at all, we haven't counter-attacked nearly as much and we have had a far more possession based game.


In all honesty i'm not sure if the switch to 4-3-3 will or should occur. We almost have the players for it however, so it is worthy of discussion.

You need that to happen in a 4-2-3-1 formation as well, and Walker and Lennon did it last season even when we were playing 4-4-1-1. As long as bale keeps playing in the number 10 position then 4-2-3-1 makes the most sense by far for us, we just are missing the pacy player on the left now. Townsend would have been ideal for the rest of this season but next season we should look for a top quality player for that position (maybe Julian Draxler or Andre Schurrle).

 

[DMac]

4-2-3-1


Would require a new backup right midfielder, a new striker, a second new striker, and perhaps a versatile across the three attacking midfield roles. Assuming Sigurddsson and Townsend are the left hand options. With Bale/Dempsey in the middle. (in my opinion)

Possibly a backup for Dembele.

Other then that we'd just be upgrading positions. So would probably be a far less expensive move.


I think it's a matter of entertainment. Some want us to be a more entertaining side and i can see where that comes from. With a ball playing midfielder we would gain the passing game that they desire. However we can get the results without the ball playing mid, we just become a more defensive side. Which some find dull.

I think what I find most entertaining is when the number 10 is the ball playing midfielder in the 4-2-3-1 formation. Like Ozil and Kroos/Muller. That's why I advocate us signing someone like Schurrle/Draxler instead of a Moutinho type.

----Sandro---Dembele---
Lennon----Bale---Schurrle
------Michu/Benteke------

That would be hugely entertaining imo.

 

[Spursalot]

You need that to happen in a 4-2-3-1 formation as well, and Walker and Lennon did it last season even when we were playing 4-4-1-1. As long as bale keeps playing in the number 10 position then 4-2-3-1 makes the most sense by far for us, we just are missing the pacy player on the left now. Townsend would have been ideal for the rest of this season but next season we should look for a top quality player for that position (maybe Julian Draxler or Andre Schurrle).

Depends what your wingers are doing. When Bale was drifting into the middle and VDV was there all he was doing was getting in the way. In the 4-3-3 there would be a lot of space for drifting in.


Currently we have Lennon keeping the width, so Walker doesn't help keep the width on that side at all. It's Siggy that comes inside and Bae/Naughton are not the quickest of defenders so we lose a lot of width.

 

[AdamB]

We will NOT IMO be moving to a 4-3-3. No one plays that system that's doing well in the league IMO and AVB has never said that's his preferred set up from what I've read

He said last summer that he wanted to play 4-3-3 but couldnt bring it in straight away as the players were used to 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 and also you have to have the right players for a given formation. I would imagine our summer transfers will take us in the direction of 4-3-3

Another clue is the fact that our development teams are all playing 4-3-3

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He said last summer that he wanted to play 4-3-3 but couldnt bring it in straight away as the players were used to 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 and also you have to have the right players for a given formation. I would imagine our summer transfers will take us in the direction of 4-3-3

Another clue is the fact that our development teams are all playing 4-3-3

Does anyone have any actual quotes for that?

I read too much Spurs stuff and never read that so happy to see it!!

Agree with the clue regarding the younger sides but again were hardly full of strikers in those sides too

 

[Nigeyman]

Diamond-spurs new best friend

Ok after the wreakage of last night and moving forward asuming we have no Bale & Lennon... pace gone.....

what about we play a diamond in midfield as I feel this compliments best what we have left......

----------Lloris------------
Walker--------Dawson---------Verts----------Benny

---------parker------------

-----Holtby------ -----dembele------

-------------sig--------

----------Dempsey----- -----Ade------

The chief problem is lack of width and it would be essential we win midfield and can push our full backs up to provide a bit of that.

From what we have left and because Siggy and Holtby's more natural game is to come inside this stlyle could help us playing to our strengths rather than highlighting the players we have missing.

what do people think - its massive losing Bale and Lennon like having our hands tied behind our back.

do people think this could be a solution to our problems or should we all just accept that we are now cannon fodder for the rest of the season.:-k

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Ok after the wreakage of last night and moving forward asuming we have no Bale & Lennon... pace gone.....

what about we play a diamond in midfield as I feel this compliments best what we have left......

----------Lloris------------
Walker--------Dawson---------Verts----------Benny

---------parker------------

-----Holtby------ -----dembele------

-------------sig--------

----------Dempsey----- -----Ade------

The chief problem is lack of width and it would be essential we win midfield and can push our full backs up to provide a bit of that.

From what we have left and because Siggy and Holtby's more natural game is to come inside this stlyle could help us playing to our strengths rather than highlighting the players we have missing.

what do people think - its massive losing Bale and Lennon like having our hands tied behind our back.

do people think this could be a solution to our problems or should we all just accept that we are now cannon fodder for the rest of the season.:-k

Well we will need to do something different with the lack of pace. I always liked the xmas tree, just need a fairy to play upfront...oh we have one, ade.

 

[Shropshire Yid]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

BAE isnt forward thinking enough for me, he is a very good supporting full back but your asking for someone to hit the by line and that his not his game!

Agree with your theory, not natural width so dont play wingers. I would like to keep the system and introduce players from the U21 team.

Saying that, It looks like Lennon will be fit for sunday and Bale not out much more than 2 games if AVB to be listened too...

 

[vkn17]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Has anyone even given credit to Basel for the way they played or even considered that they dumped Man U out of CL 2 years ago?

No we didn't get into our usual flow but that's because Basel did a great job defensively and were dangerous on counter attack.

We were outplayed by a better team last night, plain and simple. A lot of people on here expect us to trash every team that comes to WHL like we're Barcelona and if we don't, we are useless and pathetic.
Putting this into perspective might be a start.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Has anyone even given credit to Basel for the way they played or even considered that they dumped Man U out of CL 2 years ago?

No we didn't get into our usual flow but that's because Basel did a great job defensively and were dangerous on counter attack.

We were outplayed by a better team last night, plain and simple. A lot of people on here expect us to trash every team that comes to WHL like we're Barcelona and if we don't, we are useless and pathetic.
Putting this into perspective might be a start.

Basel were great - they deserved more than they got - I dont expect us to trash every team.

Im just thinking of alternatives if our two star players are out for any length of time.

 

[Lily White]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Diamonds..........its the Spurs way.



[video=youtube_share;1KEMMfV5-Qg]http://youtu.be/1KEMMfV5-Qg[/video]

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

I think this is a good time to try a 3-2-3-1-1 formation with out our pace.

....................................Lloris..........................................
.................Caulker....Dawson.....Vertonghen.................
Walker.......................................................Assou-Ekotto
..................Parker..................Dembele...........................
................................Holtby..............................................
...........................Sigurdsson............................................
..............................Adebayor...........................................

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

I think this is a good time to try a 3-2-3-1-1 formation with out our pace.

....................................Lloris..........................................
.................Caulker....Dawson.....Vertonghen.................
Walker.......................................................Assou-Ekotto
..................Parker..................Dembele...........................
................................Holtby..............................................
...........................Sigurdsson............................................
..............................Adebayor...........................................

interesting....very interesting.........what are your thoughts on how it trumps my formation you little so and so.....

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

interesting....very interesting.........what are your thoughts on how it trumps my formation you little so and so.....

I think it gives us more stability at the back having three centre halves, especially two as comfortable on the ball as Caulker and Vertonghen. Walker and Ekotto are deployed further foward and give us more natural width. Dembele and Parker would be dropping back instead of having just Parker as yours looks. We MIGHT miss Dembeles forward runs when he does receive it, but when he does decide to go forward, Holtby simply drops back alongside Parker, considering he wants to be that number 6.

I don't think playing two up front would work very well in the type of formation, especially when Dempsey and Ade together hasn't really been tested and when it has, it's hardly provided stellar results. Sigurdsson deserves the start in my formation over Dempsey. Adebayor is there just because Defoe is out injured.

Either way, I think we are both correct in saying we should be playing 3 man midfields without any wide men.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

I think it gives us more stability at the back having three centre halves, especially two as comfortable on the ball as Caulker and Vertonghen. Walker and Ekotto are deployed further foward and give us more natural width. Dembele and Parker would be dropping back instead of having just Parker as yours looks. We MIGHT miss Dembeles forward runs when he does receive it, but when he does decide to go forward, Holtby simply drops back alongside Parker, considering he wants to be that number 6.

I don't think playing two up front would work very well in the type of formation, especially when Dempsey and Ade together hasn't really been tested and when it has, it's hardly provided stellar results. Sigurdsson deserves the start in my formation over Dempsey. Adebayor is there just because Defoe is out injured.

Either way, I think we are both correct in saying we should be playing 3 man midfields without any wide men.

You had me at 'I Think' Nah seriously thanks for that. well who can say which one may be more effective but yes 3 man midfield. tis the only logical way forward.....agreed.

 

[rich]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

I think it gives us more stability at the back having three centre halves, especially two as comfortable on the ball as Caulker and Vertonghen. Walker and Ekotto are deployed further foward and give us more natural width. Dembele and Parker would be dropping back instead of having just Parker as yours looks. We MIGHT miss Dembeles forward runs when he does receive it, but when he does decide to go forward, Holtby simply drops back alongside Parker, considering he wants to be that number 6.

I don't think playing two up front would work very well in the type of formation, especially when Dempsey and Ade together hasn't really been tested and when it has, it's hardly provided stellar results. Sigurdsson deserves the start in my formation over Dempsey. Adebayor is there just because Defoe is out injured.

Either way, I think we are both correct in saying we should be playing 3 man midfields without any wide men.

Problem is playing 3 at the back is very different for the center backs. You needs players that are comfortable being pulled out to the wings. I assume Vertonghen would be OK with this as he's been used at left back this season. If we had a back three of

Kaboul/Gallas ----- Dawson ------ Vertonghen

then I think it would be something they could pick up. Asking Caulker to play in the channels might not be the best plan. I'd certainly not like to see Dawson there. Playing 3 at the back takes a lot of work to get right. Look at Adams and Judas during their England days with Hoddle. They looked all at sea for a while before it clicked. It's time we don't really have.

I'd much rather we kept the solid 4 at the back, Parker giving protection and then flood the midfield like we did against Inter in the first leg. Use the extra men to win the ball, and use the creativity of Holtby/Dembele/Siggy and even Carroll when fit to open up defences. Siggy is great at the measured diagonal (see Bale's goal vs The Scum, and Holtby/Parker chance last night as examples).

It's not out natural game, and I think we're better with lots of pace and width, but we've lost that so need to try something new using the assets that we have.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Problem is playing 3 at the back is very different for the center backs. You needs players that are comfortable being pulled out to the wings. I assume Vertonghen would be OK with this as he's been used at left back this season. If we had a back three of

Kaboul/Gallas ----- Dawson ------ Vertonghen

then I think it would be something they could pick up. Asking Caulker to play in the channels might not be the best plan. I'd certainly not like to see Dawson there. Playing 3 at the back takes a lot of work to get right. Look at Adams and Judas during their England days with Hoddle. They looked all at sea for a while before it clicked. It's time we don't really have.

I'd much rather we kept the solid 4 at the back, Parker giving protection and then flood the midfield like we did against Inter in the first leg. Use the extra men to win the ball, and use the creativity of Holtby/Dembele/Siggy and even Carroll when fit to open up defences. Siggy is great at the measured diagonal (see Bale's goal vs The Scum, and Holtby/Parker chance last night as examples).

It's not out natural game, and I think we're better with lots of pace and width, but we've lost that so need to try something new using the assets that we have.

Does that mean you are feeling my formation then????

 

[Pandy]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Has anyone even given credit to Basel for the way they played or even considered that they dumped Man U out of CL 2 years ago?

No we didn't get into our usual flow but that's because Basel did a great job defensively and were dangerous on counter attack.

We were outplayed by a better team last night, plain and simple. A lot of people on here expect us to trash every team that comes to WHL like we're Barcelona and if we don't, we are useless and pathetic.
Putting this into perspective might be a start.

I expect us to go out and at least have the better of the game against every team that comes to the Lane. Except maybe Man U. Basel were excellent, yes, but it is that sort of challenge that I expect our players to rise to, and we just didn't look like we wanted to shake off their pressure and dominate the game.

We WERE pathetic. We were dominated in terms of possession. Keeping the ball and tiring the opposition out/ probing for holes has been our chief method of beating teams at home this season, but we were hapless last night.

I'm not really sure where to start/ what was the main problem. None of our wide midfielders wanted to stay on the wing during our build-up. This over-congested the centre and made the movement of our full-backs painfully predictable. The full-backs couldn't attack their opposing full-backs because they moved up the pitch very soon after us winning possession, to compensate for our wide midfielders coming inside. This meant they were easy to mark and couldn't be found at pace running at/behind the opposition defense.

The over-congested centre allowed Basel to remain compact, and without a threat in the wide areas there was nothing to stretch them apart. This put Parker and Dembele under a lot of pressure. Parker especially couldn't cope, he was atrocious, he lost the ball repeatedly, seemed to take 4 or 5 touches every time he got the ball, and as a result could never move the ball from one flank to the other at anything approaching a quick enough speed to find some space on the opposing flank. Bale didn't help this, he seemed very reluctant to offer a passing option to our deeper players. When he moved to the left, Dempsey seemed more willing to do this, but we still couldn't create some genuine space to cause some danger because of our problems in the wide areas. Even Bale seemed too impatient to stay wide.

The lack of passing options passed pressure onto our defense, who looked hapless in possession and were forced to play risky passes and lost the ball easily, which again wasn't helped by Adebayor's non-existent aerial presence, although he was the least culpable of all our players, because everyone behind him was so poor.

I really hope Lennon is fit but you know he won't be. If not, I have no idea what we are going to do. AVB just has to give one wide man strict instructions to hold a wide position until later in the move. Hopefully the addition of Walker's natural game will also help us pose more of a wide threat. I would genuinely start Tom Carroll in the centre as well, because if we have to operate under pressure caused by having no width, I'd like to have someone who can pass the ball in one or two touches, which Parker seems totally unable to do. When he can't even put in a tackle, like yesterday, I really do not know why Parker is in our team.

We have some massive games coming up against much tougher opposition than Basel. The way we performed without Lennon against Liverpool, Inter and Fulham indicates that it wasn't Basel playing well that caused our poor performance yesterday, but the absence of Lennon. Yes Basel were good, but we looked absolutely clueless. After years of playing with 2 wingers, we are now trying to play with 0 and the results are incredibly frustrating.

 

[rich]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Does that mean you are feeling my formation then????

Hmmmmm not quite... Same personnel but I'd go:

-------------------------------------Lloris------------------------------------
--Walker-------------Dawson----------------------Vertonghen-----------BAE--
---------------------Parker------------------------Dembele-------------------
-------Holtby-----------------------Sigurdsson-----------------Dempsey-------
------------------------------------Adebayor---------------------------------

Not a diamond fan.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Diamond-spurs new best friend

Hmmmmm not quite... Same personnel but I'd go:

-------------------------------------Lloris------------------------------------
--Walker-------------Dawson----------------------Vertonghen-----------BAE--
---------------------Parker------------------------Dembele-------------------
-------Holtby-----------------------Sigurdsson-----------------Dempsey-------
------------------------------------Adebayor---------------------------------

Not a diamond fan.

maybe start like that and switch to mine if we need a goal.....mix it up a bit.