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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel

nayenezgani said:
Ramos one of our best ever managers!? :eek:o_O:D

...... Never go full @Gutter Boy.
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I recognize it's not a popular opinion. :p But that's the way I see it - winning things should signify a successful season in nearly all cases except maybe when it's accompanied by truly disastrous underperformance elsewhere (as in, relegation-tier underperformance).
 
Yes, we won trophies, but we can mock Mourinho for celebrating like a madman after winning something he disparaged so much earlier in the season.
 
DubaiSpur said:
They won things. We didn't. They had a better season, imo.
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The last 3 times we won a trophy we finished 10th and 11th twice, I personally have enjoyed the last two season despite no trophy. It's great to be watching a team playing good football all season, particularly as I'm paying my season ticket to see them play with as much effort for 38 games rather than rely on the luck of the draw.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
The last 3 times we won a trophy we finished 10th and 11th twice, I personally have enjoyed the last two season despite no trophy. It's great to be watching a team playing good football all season, particularly as I'm paying my season ticket to see them play with as much effort for 38 games rather than rely on the luck of the draw.
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Fair enough. I heartily disagree, but you're entitled to your view. Ultimately, I'd like to think that football is about great moments - transcendental moments of shared joy and bonding. Nothing epitomizes those feelings more than the joy that comes with winning a trophy. Not any number of runner up finishes or 'also-ran' statuses.

We've done brilliantly this season. But United have done better than we have.
 
I am in Stockholm and went with a few lads to the final ... let me say something I finally understand winning cups is not the be all and end all of football.

The United fans did not celebrate like we would have. The performance was so poor the game never really kicked off after they went 1-0 up. Closed the shop.

Fans were happier that they got cl than seeing a brilliant match of football and lifting the cup. It was complete false pride.

I was getting ripped by some fans but they love Utd more than the football itself. I'd be annoyed watching that brick week in week out.

I found myself as a Spurs fan .... win with style and play with courage its my way, the spurs way and I'm glad that this great club got me hooked in the first place.

They banged on about trophies etc that's all they had ... I said who would you rather watch? Which team would you have?

I said you are buying success rather like your Busby babes or fergies fledglings etc ... love being a Spurs fan.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
Fair enough. I heartily disagree, but you're entitled to your view. Ultimately, I'd like to think that football is about great moments - transcendental moments of shared joy and bonding. Nothing epitomizes those feelings more than the joy that comes with winning a trophy. Not any number of runner up finishes or 'also-ran' statuses.

We've done brilliantly this season. But United have done better than we have.
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What percentage of football supporters who go to game see their club lift a trophy? There is substantial support for clubs down to the lower tiers of the football pyramid. Thousands of people turn up to watch and its not because they expect to win anything. It's about the entertainment and camaraderie.

Imagine if people bitched about going to see films that weren't winning Oscars.
 
jts1882 said:
What percentage of football supporters who go to game see their club lift a trophy? There is substantial support for clubs down to the lower tiers of the football pyramid. Thousands of people turn up to watch and its not because they expect to win anything. It's about the entertainment and camaraderie.

Imagine if people bitched about going to see films that weren't winning Oscars.
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The media having been telling people for years if you don't win anything you're rubbish and you have generations believing this crap and they really don't understand sport. Everyone who watches or plays want to win but that's impossible, so as in life you have to make the most of what you can of it, sometimes your team play brick but that just makes the good times better. I regularly go to cricket and rugby union games and find the spectators much more appreciative of the sport rather than the result. I believe as neither game has mass coverage at club level on tv this will stay that way.
 
How you define success or failure is relative to where your club stands in the pecking order. For some clubs it is survival for some it is a title. For many years getting top 4th was our aim, one we achieved, but we must take the next step. We must win something. That is the next step in our evolution. For where we are now to compete but fail, whether nobly or otherwise is something we must move past.

The debate whether CL qualification or a trophy is better is a spurious one. It is not one or the other now, achieving both will define our success IMO.
 
Rorschach said:
How you define success or failure is relative to where your club stands in the pecking order. For some clubs it is survival for some it is a title. For many years getting top 4th was our aim, one we achieved, but we must take the next step. We must win something. That is the next step in our evolution. For where we are now to compete but fail, whether nobly or otherwise is something we must move past.

The debate whether CL qualification or a trophy is better is a spurious one. It is not one or the other now, achieving both will define our success IMO.
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Excellant post.
 
jts1882 said:
What percentage of football supporters who go to game see their club lift a trophy? There is substantial support for clubs down to the lower tiers of the football pyramid. Thousands of people turn up to watch and its not because they expect to win anything. It's about the entertainment and camaraderie.

Imagine if people bitched about going to see films that weren't winning Oscars.
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Eh. The day we have to start comparing ourselves to lower league clubs only out for the enjoyment of it is the day we give up pretenses to being guardians of Bill Nick's legacy. I have nothing against lower league teams existing for the simply joy of it - I recognize that we can't all enjoy the success that we want. Fair play to them for finding more simple joys, and in their circumstances, it's very much a commendable thing.

But to adopt the mentality of Plymouth Argyle because we can't win anything ourselves...I suspect Bill Nick would be awfully saddened by that. The game is about glory. That's not playing prettily but never winning anything, which is a tactic we adopted throughout the 90's and 2000's. That's not giving up on winning entirely just to potter around happy with the camaraderie and entertainment that playing neat stuff and eternally failing at the final hurdle apparently gets you. That is about winning - winning with style, yes, but winning all the same.

We can abandon that and become a Fulham-esque team by all means, but let's not pretend like that would be anything other than giving up the pursuit of excellence that we once (albeit all too fleetingly) epitomised in pursuit of comfortable mediocrity and good times. For me, winning a trophy is the best of both worlds - it builds unforgettable bonds with your fellow fans (where were you when we won this cup or that title?), great memories, great moments and great histories you can recall in the golden years of later life.

I'll be brutally honest - when I'm older and I have to tell my future kids or my future grandkids stories about Tottenham Hotspur, I'm not going to pick 2016/2017 first. I might pick our Carling Cup season over this one. Because there's a story in that, a tale of triumph against adversity and the good guys overcoming their doubts and flaws to triumph against evil. Less so with a trophy less season. Much less so.
 
How much does the Europa League trophy mean to Manchester United? Little to none, I would say. It was very clear from the United-biased commentators during the match. Lifting the cup - meeeh. Qualifying for the CL - yeah!
 
Nifel said:
How much does the Europa League trophy mean to Manchester United? Little to none, I would say. It was very clear from the United-biased commentators during the match. Lifting the cup - meeeh. Qualifying for the CL - yeah!
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Having family members who are Utd ST holders ( and who were there) i can tell you it meant everything to them and those who travelled with them. So many folks are brainwashed into believing that the only thing that matters in the game today is finishing in the top four, its not to the majority of traveling supporters of any club.
 
Spanish prosecutors accuse Mourinho of 3.3 million euro tax fraud

Spanish prosecutors said on Tuesday they had filed a claim against Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho on two counts of tax fraud dating back to when he coached Real Madrid.

The Portuguese manager owes Spanish tax authorities 3.3 million euros (2.91 million pounds), a Madrid prosecutor said in a statement, adding it had presented a claim to a local court.
Prosecutors said he had failed to declare revenues from his image rights in his Spanish income tax declarations from 2011 and 2012, "with the aim of obtaining illicit profits".

They said Mourinho had already settled a previous claim relating to his Spanish taxes, which resulted in a penalty of 1.15 million euros in 2014. But tax authorities later found that some of the information presented in that settlement was incorrect, the prosecutors said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-taxation-mourinho-idUKKBN19B1EM
 
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