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Danny Rose

scaramanga said:
Employee welfare does not and should not extend to damaging the company's business model.

There is a huge moral hazard in allowing Rose to just carry on as if nothing happened or leave for a huge payrise. There's a lot of value to the club in ensuring that's not seen by others as the way to force our hand.
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The funny thing is, I can see Davies and Trippier getting pay bumps in light of the new structure created by Kane's new deal, and Rose obviously won't be getting a new offer. Had he not given that interview to The Sun, he may well have gotten one. We could have a situation where Davies is on say 30k more per week than Rose and perfectly happy with his lot, and Rose wondering what he has to do to get a contract that he thinks adequately pays him.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
The funny thing is, I can see Davies and Trippier getting pay bumps in light of the new structure created by Kane's new deal, and Rose obviously won't be getting a new offer. Had he not given that interview to The Sun, he may well have gotten one. We could have a situation where Davies is on say 30k more per week than Rose and perfectly happy with his lot, and Rose wondering what he has to do to get a contract that he thinks adequately pays him.
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Which is a situation I'd be happy with - especially if Davies continues to be first choice over a better (but less well behaved) Rose.

If Rose really wants to be close to his family then he can go play for Doncaster for £1k per week. If, as I suspect, all his flimflam is about agitating for a move to a higher paying club, then we should let him see out his contract and keep him from the team players.
 
90291Spur said:
Yes, General. Of course. As I said, players will rush to come to Tottenham if they see that having challenges with mental health result in them being punished. Beatings should definitely continue until morale improves. It's time all us softies learn that punishment is for the benefit of the company's business model. And while were at it, get the kids back down the mines as they are small and can get into the tiny crevices to extract more precious material for profits.
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It's got nothing to do with his mental health and everything to do with him trying to force a move or a payrise.

We have to separate the two issues - help him with his mental state but ensure acting like a clam doesn't allow him to force a move to City or United or force a new contract.
 
scaramanga said:
It's got nothing to do with his mental health and everything to do with him trying to force a move or a payrise.

We have to separate the two issues - help him with his mental state but ensure acting like a clam doesn't allow him to force a move to City or United or force a new contract.
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Thanks for the diagnosis, doc. You saw right through Rose’s elaborate construction of a flimsy tissue of lies about an uncle who committed suicide, the racist assault on his mum and the stress caused by his long injury. I’ll be sure to check in with you if the need arises.
 
Bullet said:
In summary, you've known some people who died, who went through similar and "seemed" fine.
Lennon was close to suicide IIRC, I can't remember.
Clarke Carlisle stepped in front of a lorry IIRC.


You're right, we should take this very seriously.
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I should also add I have seen it at very close-quarters in my family. But you've likely saved the forum another "essay" from me, so I won't ruin your fine work! ;)
 
thfcsteff said:
I hope you’re right.
It still appears to me he is in the middle of a battle and that working in that battle close support would’ve been much better than opening up to the media. The self-pressure is (IMO) dangerous.

The thing I have found most alarming about the responses here to his comments are how it is all about football.
My views are based on the condition, his profile, his history and how it could all play out. He needs protection and support IMO. He might’ve felt on-top of everything and totally in-charge/lucid, only to have a very different take the next few days and sink into a depression. That he said he was on meds and came off them in such a quick turnaround is (to me) suspect. That his parents apparently did not know is a sign. That his Uncle sadly took his own life is a factor. There are a lot of reasons to question why letting him speak right now/not guarding the situation might not have been the best idea.

My hope is that you’re right and it is the making of him. My fear is that it is a loud cry for help that people will ignore because he is “obviously better because he spoke up.”

I have known and worked with several people that were “much better” and had spoken up, who are now not here. They needed better protection. I hope people actually take this seriously and don’t assume that he is “OK” because he “isn’t on meds anymore” and “got it off his chest”...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I agree with all of that, I was never implying he was fully recovered but appears to be in a better place than he previously was. If it is a cry for help then surely it’s a good thing that he’s done it? Trippier has come out and said they are all here for him any time he needs them. I just hope football becomes enough of a distraction for him not to visit those dark places again...
 
90291Spur said:
Thanks for the diagnosis, doc. You saw right through Rose’s elaborate construction of a flimsy tissue of lies about an uncle who committed suicide, the racist assault on his mum and the stress caused by his long injury. I’ll be sure to check in with you if the need arises.
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Do you need some help with your reading?

I'll try again, but unfortunately text is the only form available to me so you might miss it again:
scaramanga said:
We have to separate the two issues
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Thinking he's a clam doesn't preclude sympathy for his mental state and vice versa.
All of what's happened is unfortunate but that shouldn't make us forget what he said in the summer or what he's saying about Spurs now.
 
Thanks Mike, interesting article. Main point being that all humans may get depressed but athletes have pressures of extreme attention/assessment by millions including huge praise and crushing criticism, so it is logical they suffer moreso
 
Hmmm some interesting stuff on here...

Got to say when I first read his article the intitial thought in my head was...’have we let the lad down’?

In the grand scheme of things I’m not privy to what’s gone on but in terms of his career we have given him a platform to become England’s best left back and showcase his talents...

As an individual can you accept not getting a transfer to a team you want? Look at how Berahino’s career is now dead in the water. I’m sure that lad blames Jezza Peace everyday but really it’s Saido’s responsibility everything has gone to brick!

I think a few years ago Danny and Kyle both agreed they had given us enough service and saw players at an inferior level being paid more and not existing in the confines of a strict wage budget.

In terms of a players mental welfare we do have responsibilities as does any employer however in these modern times that seems to have gone out of the window.

Depression really is horrible but the lack of understanding and ‘just pull yourself together phalanx’ makes it even more intolerable’

So I’ll say that Rose has let us down at times and as a club we have probably let him down by ostracising him when he has an injury and not checking up on him because perhaps we still felt sore over ‘pay me what I’m worth article’

Now then I can see a lot of you don’t like a certain posters responses on here. I must say some of it I find hard to digest but my understanding is those in charge of running a business with the sole proviso of making money and protecting companies image HAVE to be this way! They have to cut away large parts of humanity and empathy as it’s a weakness in their eyes and makes them less effective at what they perceive they need to do.

Of course we all want to make money and maintain an image in this world but there are far more important things this world needs right now empathy being one of them.

I hope we can resolve to work things out with Danny perhaps as a club realise we are not blameless and try and learn from the experience.

More preferable for me than burying our heads in the sand and just ‘selling the problem’
 
thfcsteff said:
I should also add I have seen it at very close-quarters in my family. But you've likely saved the forum another "essay" from me, so I won't ruin your fine work! ;)
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Steff I might have the odd disagreement with you but I still enjoy reading your detailed posts and I’m sure everyone else does too so don’t ever worry about writing an essay if you deem it necessary to get your point across...
 
scaramanga said:
It's got nothing to do with his mental health and everything to do with him trying to force a move or a payrise.

We have to separate the two issues - help him with his mental state but ensure acting like a clam doesn't allow him to force a move to City or United or force a new contract.
Click to expand...

Levy will always cash in, which is probably the right thing for the club. Walker wanted to move, Poch dropped him at the tail-end of the season and sold him in the summer. Toby didn't like whatever deal we offered, he came back from a long injury and Poch left him out, again near the end of the season. The expectation is that, if he doesn't like the club's terms, he will be sold this summer.

Bale wanted to go, was sold for a big fee. Modric wanted a move to Chelsea, was told "no." But he was still played in the first team the following season and then sold in the next summer transfer window. Berbatov refused to play for the club (a real qunt move imo) and was sold when our valuation was met.

Levy will never let an asset rot in the reserves, he always cashes in.
 
the dza said:
Levy will always cash in, which is probably the right thing for the club. Walker wanted to move, Poch dropped him at the tail-end of the season and sold him in the summer. Toby didn't like whatever deal we offered, he came back from a long injury and Poch left him out, again near the end of the season. The expectation is that, if he doesn't like the club's terms, he will be sold this summer.

Bale wanted to go, was sold for a big fee. Modric wanted a move to Chelsea, was told "no." But he was still played in the first team the following season and then sold in the next summer transfer window. Berbatov refused to play for the club (a real qunt move imo) and was sold when our valuation was met.

Levy will never let an asset rot in the reserves, he always cashes in.
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I'd suggest that if none of them were deterred from those actions and neither, apparently, has Rose then Levy's methods might not be the best in this situation.
 
scaramanga said:
I'd suggest that if none of them were deterred from those actions and neither, apparently, has Rose then Levy's methods might not be the best in this situation.
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You might be right, I've often felt the "let the qunt rot in the reserves" way of doing things is the way to go myself (especially in the case of Berbatov). But I don't think Levy will do that, I don't think he takes things personally and will just do whatever makes the best financial sense at the time. To be fair, he did keep Modric for the extra season when he could have sold him for more, but we played him after he stayed, he didn't go in the reserves. If Modric had have refused to play like Berbatov, maybe Levy would have moved him on, I don't know.

I think Levy got burnt when Campbell walked away, and since then he has always cashed in.

Back to Rose, when it comes to on the pitch matters, I have not seen him ever give less than his all. Poch still used him as a squad player when he came back to fitness, he wasn't totally done away with. And Rose came in and did his best, and got better as the rust went away imo. So I don't think Rose is the type you'd send to the stiffs. The next guy that refuses to play for us (unless he gets a move) then yes, by all means.
 
Nigeyman said:
Hmmm some interesting stuff on here...

Got to say when I first read his article the intitial thought in my head was...’have we let the lad down’?

In the grand scheme of things I’m not privy to what’s gone on but in terms of his career we have given him a platform to become England’s best left back and showcase his talents...

As an individual can you accept not getting a transfer to a team you want? Look at how Berahino’s career is now dead in the water. I’m sure that lad blames Jezza Peace everyday but really it’s Saido’s responsibility everything has gone to brick!

I think a few years ago Danny and Kyle both agreed they had given us enough service and saw players at an inferior level being paid more and not existing in the confines of a strict wage budget.

In terms of a players mental welfare we do have responsibilities as does any employer however in these modern times that seems to have gone out of the window.

Depression really is horrible but the lack of understanding and ‘just pull yourself together phalanx’ makes it even more intolerable’

So I’ll say that Rose has let us down at times and as a club we have probably let him down by ostracising him when he has an injury and not checking up on him because perhaps we still felt sore over ‘pay me what I’m worth article’

Now then I can see a lot of you don’t like a certain posters responses on here. I must say some of it I find hard to digest but my understanding is those in charge of running a business with the sole proviso of making money and protecting companies image HAVE to be this way! They have to cut away large parts of humanity and empathy as it’s a weakness in their eyes and makes them less effective at what they perceive they need to do.

Of course we all want to make money and maintain an image in this world but there are far more important things this world needs right now empathy being one of them.

I hope we can resolve to work things out with Danny perhaps as a club realise we are not blameless and try and learn from the experience.

More preferable for me than burying our heads in the sand and just ‘selling the problem’
Click to expand...

I trust you have read what I posted in this thread, so will know that I actually few HIS people let him down.

But how do you feel the club “let him down”? Frankly I think that is an astonishing conclusion but am keen to understand your angle? Because for me, there is simply no evidence whatsoever of that.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
the dza said:
You might be right, I've often felt the "let the qunt rot in the reserves" way of doing things is the way to go myself (especially in the case of Berbatov). But I don't think Levy will do that, I don't think he takes things personally and will just do whatever makes the best financial sense at the time. To be fair, he did keep Modric for the extra season when he could have sold him for more, but we played him after he stayed, he didn't go in the reserves. If Modric had have refused to play like Berbatov, maybe Levy would have moved him on, I don't know.

I think Levy got burnt when Campbell walked away, and since then he has always cashed in.

Back to Rose, when it comes to on the pitch matters, I have not seen him ever give less than his all. Poch still used him as a squad player when he came back to fitness, he wasn't totally done away with. And Rose came in and did his best, and got better as the rust went away imo. So I don't think Rose is the type you'd send to the stiffs. The next guy that refuses to play for us (unless he gets a move) then yes, by all means.
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I don't take it personally either - neither do I want him to rot in the reserves as punishment.

I want it to happen so that it's very clear to the rest of the squad (and future squad members) that publicly mouthing off and/or throwing a strop is not the way to further your career at Spurs or elsewhere. Rose had played something like 8 matches between signing a new contract for a massive payrise and going to the press saying he wanted more money and wanted to move up north. The lesson should be that if you want to move, don't take the money, just run your contract down to a year and leave quietly.
 
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