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Euro 2020

tommysvr said:
Why do you have a divine right to win this match? “A good manager would have wont that game in 90 mins” - you played the best team in the tournament. A team who hasn’t lost in 34 matches. Who’ve not conceded more than a single goal in a match in that time.

I agree Southgate’s game management was poor — no idea how Mount stayed on that long — but, again, you were a two-penalty swing from him being a national hero. And that’s no exaggeration. He would probably have been knighted.
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He was timid, when he needed to be brave.

You just have to watch the game. And watch the Spain game. Italy are not a great side. Play your game well, at home, and England will win that 9 times of out 10 with decent managment. We were well prepared and played well for 40 mins, then lost confidence, shape and leadership after 40 mins.
 
SpurMeUp said:
He was timid, when he needed to be brave.

You just have to watch the game. And watch the Spain game. Italy are not a great side. Play well and you will win 9/10. We played well, then lost confidence, shape and leadership after 40 mins.
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Come on man. Italy are not a great side? Read my post again. They haven’t lost in 34 matches and they just won the Euros. What more do they have to do?
 
tommysvr said:
Come on man. Italy are not a great side? Read my post again. They haven’t lost in 34 matches and they just won the Euros. What more do they have to do?
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They are a great team. But they don't have m/any stand-out players. They are second to none in team ethic and leadership - things we lacked. But we had more ability - which you can see from watching the game. That is precisely why the buck stops so clearly on the manager.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Their a great side
Not a team of individuals or names
Just a real unit
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I agree. There were 3 countries at this tournament who I could say that about: Italy, Denmark and England. They all got as far as they did by being an organised collective of talented players, as opposed to full of one-out superstars like France and Belgium.
 
SpurMeUp said:
They are a great team. But they don't have m/any stand-out players. They are second to none in team ethic and leadership - things we lacked. But we had more ability - which you can see from watching the game. That is precisely why the buck stops so clearly on the manager.
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Who are England’s stand out players, besides Kane? Sterling is probably up there but I’d say you probably don’t rate him. Rice and Phillips - both players I like - play for West Ham and Leeds. Stones has had one good season in 5. Maguire is constantly mocked on this board. I could go on.
 
SpurMeUp said:
He was timid, when he needed to be brave.

You just have to watch the game. And watch the Spain game. Italy are not a great side. Play your game well, at home, and England will win that 9 times of out 10 with decent managment. We were well prepared and played well for 40 mins, then lost confidence, shape and leadership after 40 mins.
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I'm not sure its that straightforward. Italy looked much more comfortable on the ball and England struggled to get it off them. Rice and Phillips in midfield? And they did alright but they just arent great on the ball.

Italy are a great team. Unbeaten in 3 years and 30 odd games. Dunno what it takes to be great in that case. They were a joy to watch second half.
 
tommysvr said:
Who are England’s stand out players, besides Kane? Sterling is probably up there but I’d say you probably don’t rate him. Rice and Phillips - both players I like - play for West Ham and Leeds. Stones has had one good season in 5. Maguire is constantly mocked on this board. I could go on.
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Sterling, Grealish, Rice, Maguire all better than Italian equivilants. They have a 36-year-old centre back! Apart from Ciassa no great talent upfront. Their midfield and goalkeeper are probably elite.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I'm not sure its that straightforward. Italy looked much more comfortable on the ball and England struggled to get it off them. Rice and Phillips in midfield? And they did alright but they just arent great on the ball.

Italy are a great team. Unbeaten in 3 years and 30 odd games. Dunno what it takes to be great in that case. They were a joy to watch second half.
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Henderson tho
 
SpurMeUp said:
They are a great team. But they don't have m/any stand-out players. They are second to none in team ethic and leadership - things we lacked. But we had more ability - which you can see from watching the game. That is precisely why the buck stops so clearly on the manager.
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England don't have a quality midfield, I'd take Italy's over England and that is where the game was won.
While Rice and Phillips played well defensively, they offer nothing creatively. I don't think Kane received one pass of note off either tonight.
Southgate has to take his share of the blame with the way he set up, but you're totally under selling Italy.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I'm not sure its that straightforward. Italy looked much more comfortable on the ball and England struggled to get it off them. Rice and Phillips in midfield? And they did alright but they just arent great on the ball.

Italy are a great team. Unbeaten in 3 years and 30 odd games. Dunno what it takes to be great in that case. They were a joy to watch second half.
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I thought Rice was excellent. Brave. Able to keep possession, push forward. Southgate took him off. His first sub. He didn't replace him with Grealish - I'd actually like to see Grealish play in midfield a la Modric. Keep the ball, and turn defence into attack.

30 games playing who? Mainly average sides I would hazard a guess. 1-0 up with home advantage against an impressive but not stand out Italian side, for me any positive manager in the mould of El Tel or Rednapp even - someone who can give players confidence at HT - it is not a hard win.

Then you look at the subs. Rice off. Poor decision. We didn't retain the ball after that. Sterling, Kane, Mount tiring - Rashford, Grealish, Sancho fresh on the bench and mainly unused. I posted it when they were coming on, chucking on Sancho and Rashford cold for a pen was a mistake.

Just in my opinion, that was a real opportunity and a braver manager takes that home.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I thought Rice was excellent. Brave. Able to keep possession, push forward. Southgate took him off. His first sub. He didn't replace him with Grealish - I'd actually like to see Grealish play in midfield a la Modric. Keep the ball, and turn defence into attack.

30 games playing who? Mainly average sides I would hazard a guess. 1-0 up with home advantage against an impressive but not stand out Italian side, for me any positive manager in the mould of El Tel or Rednapp even - someone who can give players confidence at HT - it is not a hard win.

Then you look at the subs. Rice off. Poor decision. We didn't retain the ball after that. Sterling, Kane, Mount tiring - Rashford, Grealish, Sancho fresh on the bench. Just in my opinion, that was a real opportunity and a braver manager takes that home.
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Rice had a good first half but by the time he came off, England were being overrun. It wasn't a good sub but it didn't lose the game for England.

You can't get on the front foot or be positive if you don't have the ball.
 
Football is starting to realy depress me. I'm 59 and turn 60 in January next year and I've pretty much given up on the idea of England or Spurs winning anything of note in my remaining years. Thank GHod for the late 60s', early 70's and the early 80's that's all I can say. How must Kane be feeling now? How many losers medals has he got?
 
scaramanga said:
I stand by every word of it.

He could have turned down the opportunity if he didn't have the nerve to stand up and be counted. He chose the glory and fudged us.
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He missed a penalty and he's still already acheived a brick load more than what you (or I) will ever achieve in our lifetimes.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Rice had a good first half but by the time he came off, England were being overrun. It wasn't a good sub but it didn't lose the game for England.

You can't get on the front foot or be positive if you don't have the ball.
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Precisely. So do you take off your midfielder who has been good on the ball, able to turn possession, draw fouls, or take off the player whose job it is to screen who doesn't really have ability on the ball? A brave manager takes off Philips and leaves Rice on. Or at least puts Grealish on instead of Rice to retain the ball and win some fouls. Instead, Southgate takes off Rice and puts on Henderson. As you say it wasn't the only mistake.

With the game to be won, how do you leave Rashford and Sancho off with Mount, Kane and Sterling dead on their feet.

Just my opinion, but Southgate was well prepared - did a great job there - but wasn't able to react to what was happening in the game and address it. A manager who would have would have seen victory - imo.
 
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