FA Cup 2016/17

[StephenH]

That Gazza goal is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I wasn't even old enough for primary school when it happened, and yet it's a beautiful, compelling story like no other in my eyes - part of the fabric of our story, a highlight, a moment that drew everyone together in transcendental joy and added a proud chapter to our long history of winning cups and overcoming the odds.

For some future Spurs fan presently in diapers, the 2016-2017 season won't be nearly as much of a signal moment - it will be a remarkable benchmark that shattered records and set a formidable tally for future team's to emulate, but there was no fairytale ending at the end of it, no triumph against the odds that ended in a moment of glory.

Arsenal won a trophy - they have won the most FA Cups in history, and Wenger has won almost as many FA Cups on his own as we have won as a club since 1882. United won two trophies and the Charity Shield. Chelsea won the league.

And we put the pressure on.

Hard to spin those cold facts.

I was at the lane for the infamous United comeback in 2001, up 3-0 at HT, lost 3-5 . That was 16 years ago and that was the norm. We could not get close to any of the old top teams, mind you can say that about the last christ knows how long. Now! We can.
We will win cups when we have the money and thus squad depth and quality to not even 'care' that much when we do.
Don't worry about the two cups, they will come. United won two this on the back of a huge and bloody expensive squad. Give it time @DubaiSpur

 

[StephenH]

The problem is that we haven't been building in any true sense. We've been starting to build, knocking it down and starting to build again, over and over.
For the first time in ages it feels that we are now have some stability and are getting somewhere special. And if this current era of building means going last season, this season and maybe even next season (although I really, really hope not) without a trophy but still title challenging and hopefully going further in the CL I think I can live with that, albeit with an element of disappointment. Beyond that, and going into our new stadium, yes, we need to start winning something.
(And don't be surprised next year when Poch heavily rotates his team selections in the domestic cups again, because I am sure he will be 100% focused on going for the title).

Look, there's no right or wrong answer to this. We all want the best for our club. There are just different definitions for each person as to what that "best" looks like at the end of this season.

This^^
My only thought on your excellent post. We must factor in the stadium upheaval over the two coming seasons.
Poch has a very difficult task ahead! The next two season will define his tenure to a great extent. As a 'glass half empty' geezer that is nagging at me. As I type though, I'm delighted by this last season.

 

[Baleforce]

re: arsenal

it's all relative, a decade ago they were winning league titles and getting to CL finals, compared to that, 5th and an fa cup is a wooden spoon


re: memorable moments

i don't really remember anything before 87, but the cup wins in that time were distractions to negative effects elsewhere, venables and gazza after 91, campbell after 99, Berbs and Keane after 2008, none of them led to anything

for me, the biggest moment was Crouch heading us into the CL, that was the biggest step forward this club had taken in decades, we needed that to get where we are now and hopefully where we'll end up

 

[paxtonwolf]

I suppose this is a question that only the older members of this forum can answer, which do they remember more fondly:

a) 86/87 season - 3rd in First Division, FA Cup runners-up, League Cup semi-finalists (Clive Allen scoring a club record 49 goals).

b) 83/84 season - 8th in First Division, UEFA Cup winners.

c) 81/82 season - 4th in First Division, FA Cup winners, League Cup runners-up, Cup Winners Cup semi-finalist.

d) 80/81 season - 10th in First Division, FA Cup winners (Ricky Villa wonder goal).

Great question.

86/87 was a really good side and how we didnt win anything was a mystery
83/84 ended in style and who can ever forget seeing Parkes run off in celebration
81/82 Arguably the best team in my lifetime. Could have won the lot, but ran out of steam. The FA Cup was scant consolation.

80/81 is the season of those 4 I remember most fondly, but amazingly I didnt realise/conveniently forgot we actually finished 10th

 

[Daisuk]

But say you win a cup and end up 6th in the table. You'll celebrate that trophy that night you win it. Feel good about it the days after and the week after. You brag about it to your gooner friends who laugh at you because the cup means brick these days.

Whereas if you finish second in the league, you not only qualify for the champions league, which means more money to the club and the possibility of adding better players, and in essence building a better foundation for the club - but it also means you've had a much better season than a team finishing 6th, you've simply won more games and have celebrated winning more games, more likely celebrated scoring more goals etc.

What's the highlight of following a football club on a day to day basis? Seeing that ball hit the back of the net, get out of your seat, scream your lungs out, hug the stranger next to you at the pub, sling a pint of beer at the ceiling, clap and sit down with a buzz while someone starts singing a song.

So, the more goals you score, the more entertaining your team is, the more of those moments you'll get. Trophies are just the icing on the cake. The best celebration, I agree, but give me 2nd over being a boring side and winning two trophies (ref yanited) any day of the week.

 

[Spursman]

re: arsenal

it's all relative, a decade ago they were winning league titles and getting to CL finals, compared to that, 5th and an fa cup is a wooden spoon


re: memorable moments

i don't really remember anything before 87, but the cup wins in that time were distractions to negative effects elsewhere, venables and gazza after 91, campbell after 99, Berbs and Keane after 2008, none of them led to anything

for me, the biggest moment was Crouch heading us into the CL, that was the biggest step forward this club had taken in decades, we needed that to get where we are now and hopefully where we'll end up

Great point. I'll use this

 

[parklane1]

Good points made by both sides on this, most know which side i come down on though. What i will say is that IF we win nothing again next season then my fear is we will not only be talking about Walker leaving ( as we are now) but they will/may be one or two others doing the same. Players WANT to win things because finishing as glorious runners up is not enough for them.

 

[AuroRaman]

I felt a twinge of sadness watching the build-up to the Cup. As remarkable a season as we've had, my biggest and best memories of Spurs have always been with a trophy at the end of it. Also, others have mentioned it; that Gazza free-kick in the 91 semi. my first BIG memory with my club. I mean.....

We've endured a lot of dross (or Gross) over the years since. But the key moments for me were the two LC wins. Especially the one against Chelsea, when Ledley came back in, Zokora turning his back on the penalty and clenching his fists when we scored, Woodgate scoring a cup final winning goal with his ear, Berbs and Keano running to each other and embracing to the Rocky soundtrack at the final whistle.

I'll treasure our Champions League run, the making of Bale, Inter, Crouchie and Lennon at the San Siro. But all I want is for this team to be holding a substantial trophy very soon.

(taking bets on who will be the first to post a pic of us winning a trophy in Hong Kong)

 

[90sSpursBook]

Much like us waiting 22 years to finish above Woolwich (having finished above every other team in England at least once) not at ;est reaching an FA Cup final is something of a statistical freak.

The FA Cup is more and more a closed shop for the elite teams. In the last 20 years (i.e. since and including 1998) the following 7 teams have won it:

Woolwich 7 (98, 02, 03, 05, 14, 15, 17)
Chelsea 5 (00, 07, 09, 10, 12)
Man Utd 3 (99, 04, 16)
Liverpool 2 (01, 06)
Emirates Marketing Project 1 (11)
Portsmouth 1 (08)
Wigan 1 (13)

Additionally the following 10 teams have reached finals (but not won it)

A Villa (x2), Saudi Sportswashing Machine (x2), Southampton, Millwall, West Ham, Cardiff, Stoke, Everton, Hull, Crystal Palace

That means that 17 teams have reached 40 finals (i.e. 2 teams per 20 finals) and its a real freak that we're not one of them. Based on this season's league table only WBA, Bournemouth, Leicester, Burnley, Swansea and Watford have waited longer to reach a cup final (and all 5 of these have played in the 3rd tier during that period).

By comparison In the 20 years prior to that (1978 - 1997) 10 different teams won FA Cup finals

Man U 5 (83, 85, 90, 94, 96)
Spurs 3 (81, 82, 91)
Liverpool 3 (86, 89, 92)
Everton 2 (84, 95)
Woolwich 2 (79, 93)
Ipswich 1 (78)
West Ham 1 (80)
Coventry 1 (87)
Wimbledon 1(88)
Chelsea 1 (97)

A further 8 teams reached finals:

Emirates Marketing Project, QPR, Brighton, Watford, Crystal Palace, Nottingham F, Sunderland, Sheffield W.

No other team of our prominence have failed so miserably - when I say miserably I refer to the fact that we have been PL ever presents and between 98-17 have finished in top 6 on 10 occasions so should have been able to focus on a sustained cup run. Perhaps N Forest were the freak case between 78-97 reaching just the one Cup final and Leeds probably should have achieved more in the cup between 91-02 when they were challenging.

 

[90sSpursBook]

Going by social media today (not recommended) you' think Woolwich beat us rather than Chelsea yesterday. I was trying to be blase in the build up to the game - two sets of insufferable tacos playing eachother - but instinctively I wanted Woolwich to lose the most.

The more I think about it today though the less and less relevant to us it actually is. The result doesn't affect us in any way whatsoever - Poch and Levy will not have battered an eyelid - in fact I suspect they will be pleased to be able to schedule their own pre-season game the weekend of the community shield now. Chelsea winning the CL in 2012 was 1000 times more significant for us and even Woolwich beating WBA the week prior (to finish 3rd) had far more relevance for us than yesterday. I doubt that winning the FA Cup will affect which players Woolwich can attract this summer (at our expense) - the only difference will be the bunch of insufferable where's wally tacos lording up.

If, as in seasons past, the Cup final took place before the end of the season and the campaign ended with last week's league fixtures and them finishing 5th behind Liverpool they'd be under a cloud for the summer.

 

[StephenH]

Good points made by both sides on this, most know which side i come down on though. What i will say is that IF we win nothing again next season then my fear is we will not only be talking about Walker leaving ( as we are now) but they will/may be one or two others doing the same. Players WANT to win things because finishing as glorious runners up is not enough for them.

Most of our/today's top players want the exposure and the money that brings.
Winning domestic cups are great but doesn't IMHO rank that high in the scheme of things.
Champions league is a great window for players to basically sell thier 'brand', it's a 'be there or square' type attitude.
Its all about TV and media exposure and the money and this season our squads exposure went through the roof due to our excellent form this season. This exposure is how the Pogba's, Kane's and the likes of the new lad at City Bernardo Silva (Monaco in CL) further thier careers in the modern game.

TV now rules, we may not like it but that's the way it is!

Question: Was the Fa cup only Iive on BT Sport?

 

[Kandi1977]

Question: Was the Fa cup only Iive on BT Sport?

BBC as well

 

[StephenH]

BBC as well

I thought it must have been ta

 

[DeleHarry]

Most of our/today's top players want the exposure and the money that brings.
Winning domestic cups are great but doesn't IMHO rank that high in the scheme of things.
Champions league is a great window for players to basically sell thier 'brand', it's a 'be there or square' type attitude.
Its all about TV and media exposure and the money and this season our squads exposure went through the roof due to our excellent form this season. This exposure is how the Pogba's, Kane's and the likes of the new lad at City Bernardo Silva (Monaco in CL) further thier careers in the modern game.

TV now rules, we may not like it but that's the way it is!

Question: Was the Fa cup only Iive on BT Sport?

Top players want money, exposure, CL and trophies ......everything.

All we have to do is get that first pot in the bag and the rest will take care of itself . Somehow we have struck gold with having a top manager and top players at the same time. We have a phenomenal goalscorer showing the ability to become an all time great. Other teams may have unlimited wealth/budgets but we already have a talented 13 or 14 man squad that can match of even better nearly all of theirs.

They have more depth, but we can even close that gap with some smart talented buys(no more Sissokos)

I feel the club is now ready for trophy success. The players and manager have been through a lot, have grown and matured, how they performed this season after the disappointment with how last season ended has been nothing short of remarkable.

I think we will see unrelenting ruthlessness from the team next season.

 

[mephitis]

Somehow we have struck gold with having a top manager and top players at the same time. We have a phenomenal goalscorer showing the ability to become an all time great. Other teams may have unlimited wealth/budgets but we already have a talented 13 or 14 man squad that can match of even better nearly all of theirs.

They have more depth, but we can even close that gap with some smart talented buys

I feel the club is now ready for trophy success. The players and manager have been through a lot, have grown and matured, how they performed this season after the disappointment with how last season ended has been nothing short of remarkable.

I think we will see unrelenting ruthlessness from the team next season.

Worryingly that could have been lifted directly from https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forum/1-leicester-city-forum/ at the end of last season.

Luckily I think the players are/have been made aware of, the value of the collective and the project going forward (can't believe I've just written that corporate gonads ). There's a belief in what's to come and how we are going about it. Add to that an owner and chairman who are driving that, and have hopefully got past knee-jerk reactions to set backs, and the future looks bright. The final piece in that jig-saw is that we, as fans, seem to all be on board too. It's been a while since that's been the case.

But having said all that, and I don't for one minute think we'll do a Leicester, I've been around long enough to always err on the side of caution.

 

[Lemonade Money]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...l-winning-a-genuinely-compelling-fa-cup-final