Franco Baldini

[Modric THFC]

Our director of footballs have been given power by Levy and gone and signed a load of crud players. Other clubs listen to their coaches and take advice from analysts. But our chairman keeps falling for charlatans.

Baldini was a wrongun and anyone could see that after a month.

He's not in charge of signing players though. Well at least anymore.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

The bolded bit is where you have gone wrong my friend, football is a simple and straight forward game ( and I know it is having spent the majority of my life working in it). What makes it difficult is the mantra spread about by fans and blogs that are always going on about stats, formations etc. It's 11 men against 11 men and all this hogwash about stats, formations etc should only be used as a tool not as a holy bible like so many seem to do in todays game.

I actually tend to agree with you. But I was doing that thing where you say something you do not actually think is true so you sound more reasonable to those on the other side of the debate as you attempt to bring them round to your way of thinking.

Totally agree with you on the over use of stats, which is why I always thought redknapp apart from being a dodgy character was a good manager(needed to promote youth more)

I will not be baited back into this argument. Baldini like every director of football Levy employees is a mug. I have hopes for this Mitchell as just a guy to double check with all our signings can kick with both feet.

 

[Baleforce]

The bolded bit is where you have gone wrong my friend, football is a simple and straight forward game ( and I know it is having spent the majority of my life working in it). What makes it difficult is the mantra spread about by fans and blogs that are always going on about stats, formations etc. It's 11 men against 11 men and all this hogwash about stats, formations etc should only be used as a tool not as a holy bible like so many seem to do in todays game.

then why do inferior 11's prevail so regularly?

(genuine question not a snipy retort)

if it was so simple every game would surely be predictable and we'd all be millionaires due to our accumulators coming in every week

 

[parklane1]

I actually tend to agree with you. But I was doing that thing where you say something you do not actually think is true so you sound more reasonable to those on the other side of the debate as you attempt to bring them round to your way of thinking.

Totally agree with you on the over use of stats, which is why I always thought redknapp apart from being a dodgy character was a good manager(needed to promote youth more)

I will not be baited back into this argument. Baldini like every director of football Levy employees is a mug. I have hopes for this Mitchell as just a guy to double check with all our signings can kick with both feet.

So apart from Baldini we agree

 

[parklane1]

then why do inferior 11's prevail so regularly?

if it was so simple every game would surely be predictable and we'd all be millionaires due to our accumulators coming in every week

Because any game is a game of chance ( especially with 22 players involved at once) but that does not mean its not a simple and uncomplicated game. Those who complicate it with talk of formations ( loads of them), and reams of stats do that.

 

[Baleforce]

Because any game is a game of chance ( especially with 22 players involved at once) but that does not mean its not a simple and uncomplicated game. Those who complicate it with talk of formations ( loads of them), and reams of stats do that.

but if players are well drilled enough to react perfectly in certain situations surely chance is reduced as much as possible, tactical decisions must have some bearing surely or coaches wouldn't be so highly regarded and changes in manager wouldn't see such a change in results with the same players as is often the case?

 

[parklane1]

but if players are well drilled enough to react perfectly in certain situations surely chance is reduced as much as possible, tactical decisions must have some bearing surely or coaches wouldn't be so highly regarded and changes in manager wouldn't see such a change in results with the same players as is often the case?

Of course you have to have tactical decisions but that does not mean they have to be so complicated the average footballer has a problem with them.

 

[Baleforce]

Of course you have to have tactical decisions but that does not mean they have to be so complicated the average footballer has a problem with them.

well you know what they say about average, think how stupid the average footballer is, then remember that half of them are stupider than that

 

[parklane1]

well you know what they say about average, think how stupid the average footballer is, then remember that half of them are stupider than that

Having worked with young pro footballers I can endorse the bit about lack of intelligence from most of them. They were so good at sport a lot of them never took a interest in a lot of lessons at school and because they were county players as well they were excused lessons ( or could not be bothered) to excel at them.

Now that does not mean they are all the same but in my experience many were.

 

[Baleforce]

Having worked with young pro footballers I can endorse the bit about lack of intelligence from most of them. They were so good at sport a lot of them never took a interest in a lot of lessons at school and because they were county players as well they were excused lessons ( or could not be bothered) to excel at them.

Now that does not mean they are all the same but in my experience many were.

was it the same abroad or is that just a British thing?

 

[parklane1]

was it the same abroad or is that just a British thing?

I can not really say to be honest, however I know from my time in Holland a lot of kids in the acadameys had to have class time and pass their work if the wanted to remain at the club.

The FA were encouraged to set up similar places but at that time although they made all the right noises they did not rush to do so.

 

[braineclipse]

Because any game is a game of chance ( especially with 22 players involved at once) but that does not mean its not a simple and uncomplicated game. Those who complicate it with talk of formations ( loads of them), and reams of stats do that.

I agree fully about formations, and to a large extent about the kinds of stats presented to the media.

But let's be clear here, what most media outlets and fans talk about as "stats" is quite different to what people like Mitchell (and most clubs near the top) have access to and use in their analysis.

Since this is the Baldini thread, I see no reason to think Baldini overly relies on stats.

 

[parklane1]

I agree fully about formations, and to a large extent about the kinds of stats presented to the media.

But let's be clear here, what most media outlets and fans talk about as "stats" is quite different to what people like Mitchell (and most clubs near the top) have access to and use in their analysis.

Since this is the Baldini thread, I see no reason to think Baldini overly relies on stats.

Having used stats myself let me make myself clear in what I have said, stats are a tool to use but they are not the be all and end all of what the game is about. As for Baldini I never said he did and I am not against him staying if Poch decides he is happy for him to.

 

[braineclipse]

Having used stats myself let me make myself clear in what I have said, stats are a tool to use but they are not the be all and end all of what the game is about. As for Baldini I never said he did and I am not against him staying if Poch decides he is happy for him to.

Agreed.

 

[The Ghost Of Tom Joad]

He's not in charge of signing players though. Well at least anymore.

?

 

[NWND]

Just a few things to pick up on about stats. From what I've read about Mitchell and the set-up at Southampton, there seems to be an impression that he is just sat looking at stats all day, in some kind of football manager-esque style. From what I understand, part of what he did was statistical analysis, but he also apparently spent a lot of time studying videos and analysing performances, positions taken up in a match, positional and tactical weaknesses, errors that are consistently made.

I'd also point out that if the club was planning to rely too heavily on the analysis side of things, they wouldn't have brought back Bloomfield, who is a very respected traditional field-scout, or employed a bunch of other scouts to work with/under/alongside Mitchell.

I think its right to have a balance and as long as Poch gets what he needs to make the system work, I also believe that decision by transfer committee based on analysis and a variety of opinions isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[parklane1]

Just a few things to pick up on about stats. From what I've read about Mitchell and the set-up at Southampton, there seems to be an impression that he is just sat looking at stats all day, in some kind of football manager-esque style. From what I understand, part of what he did was statistical analysis, but he also apparently spent a lot of time studying videos and analysing performances, positions taken up in a match, positional and tactical weaknesses, errors that are consistently made.

I'd also point out that if the club was planning to rely too heavily on the analysis side of things, they wouldn't have brought back Bloomfield, who is a very respected traditional field-scout, or employed a bunch of other scouts to work with/under/alongside Mitchell.

I think its right to have a balance and as long as Poch gets what he needs to make the system work, I also believe that decision by transfer committee based on analysis and a variety of opinions isn't necessarily a bad thing.

All fair comments.

 

[braineclipse]

Just a few things to pick up on about stats. From what I've read about Mitchell and the set-up at Southampton, there seems to be an impression that he is just sat looking at stats all day, in some kind of football manager-esque style. From what I understand, part of what he did was statistical analysis, but he also apparently spent a lot of time studying videos and analysing performances, positions taken up in a match, positional and tactical weaknesses, errors that are consistently made.

I'd also point out that if the club was planning to rely too heavily on the analysis side of things, they wouldn't have brought back Bloomfield, who is a very respected traditional field-scout, or employed a bunch of other scouts to work with/under/alongside Mitchell.

I think its right to have a balance and as long as Poch gets what he needs to make the system work, I also believe that decision by transfer committee based on analysis and a variety of opinions isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Spot on.

My understanding of the kind of software used to analyse data is also that it links stats to video clips from games. Allowing users to not only look at a stat, but quickly access video clips of the game involvements tied to that stat. A very long haul from the kinds of stats presented to us as fans by the media and free websites.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Our director of footballs have been given power by Levy and gone and signed a load of crud players. Other clubs listen to their coaches and take advice from analysts. But our chairman keeps falling for charlatans.

Baldini was a wrongun and anyone could see that after a month.

Baldini had been a very successful DoF at Roma (twice) and Real Madrid - his track record is as good as anyone in the game.

If you turned up in a new job and inherited a department that had been completely neglected/decimated for 4 years, would you feel it fair to judge you on your first month's results, or do you think it fairer to give you a year or two to repair and rebuild first?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Having worked with young pro footballers I can endorse the bit about lack of intelligence from most of them. They were so good at sport a lot of them never took a interest in a lot of lessons at school and because they were county players as well they were excused lessons ( or could not be bothered) to excel at them.

Now that does not mean they are all the same but in my experience many were.

Same with coaches too. Most British coaches have never known anything other than being a player.

Most Iberian coaches (for example) have degrees in sports psychology or related subjects.

The norm here isn't to be a student of the game (though there are exceptions like Rodgers and Howe)