Gary Monk on Cheating...

[Baleforce]

fair enough, agree to disagree, for me the line is at the point where it becomes assault

 

[chicken_badge]

I hate Mark Hughes. I remember when he was at City and just came into big money, and came out with some "we're the big fish, tough luck minnows" comment when City beat us to a player. And then there is that priceless footage from a camera in his fuming face when United get a last minute winner and he knows he is getting sacked in the morning. And then he ends up at muppet club after muppet club, who's the minnow now?

As a footballer he became renounced for scissor kicks when half the time a header would have done the same job. Went to Barca at the same time as Lineker and it's like when Milan thought they bought John Barnes, I swear Barca thought they were getting Rushie

And he looks like Rod Hull/Camilla/Ailsa-out-of-Home-and-Away

 

[metalgear]

Camera angle did the ref in. From his view it looked like a push on the back. But it was a force applied onto the side of the body. IMO anything from the side - shoulder barge , pushing and pulling - is part of the game if not excessive. But clearly pushing from the back is a foul.

 

[Neymar]

But you're not trying to get them booked which could lead to them potentially getting suspended, that is not right. Why should a player miss games because x player dived and got him booked? I guess it's the dishonesty that annoys me. When someone kicks a player, everyone can see, it's the sneakiness about diving that grates on me.

how much different is knocking someone out of the worldcup by cheating (other than through diving), to getting an opponent suspended through diving?

im with galeforce. you either set the line at 1)assault, or 2) condemn all forms of cheating equally.

imo the singling out of "divers" is disgusting, when the reality is that theyre no different to every other player on the pitch.

 

[glasgowspur]

But in diving you are cheating twice, winning the foul and getting a player booked for nothing. Foul someone or tug their shirt you know the rap falls on you , diving is falsely accusing someone else.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Baleforce]

if you get away with a shirt pull you are cheating twice, you stop them making a play but don't get the yellow card for it meaning your next booking is only yellow not red

I think the same argument could be made for any infraction you get away with

also how is it different to falsely accuse of a foul by diving from appealing for a throw or corner when you know the ball came of you last, or appealing for a handball when you know it hit their chest?

there is gamesmanship happening all over the pitch all the time (small margins, big gains) it seems nonsensical to me to highlight and chase one thing

the thing that annoys me most is obstruction when the ball runs out of play, if we have a panel for divers I want one for that as well, oh and keepers holding the ball longer than six seconds

 

[Neymar]

But in diving you are cheating twice, winning the foul and getting a player booked for nothing. Foul someone or tug their shirt you know the rap falls on you , diving is falsely accusing someone else.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

if people feel so strongly about falsely accusing someone else, why is there not a bigger outcry when defenders shout at attackers (accusing them of diving) after fouling them?

the problem is, football fans have been so indoctrinated since a very young age to a strong bias against diving (compared to other forms of cheating). so they dont know how to think otherwise. a bit like religions in this sense. in other cultures, ie. south american, their view on diving is different because their football culture doesnt indoctrinate kids against diving as strongly as in the uk.

and every time someone like gary monk makes this kind of comment, it further cements the belief that diving is a worser crime. when in reality, if you can see past the instinct to automatically agree (with such comments), you will see that it is just one form of cheating in a game where all players take advantage of the numerous ways to cheat. the fact is, football is a cheats game. if you dont cheat in football, you wont get very far (given how the games are officiated currently).

 

[Kingdawson]

Mark ****ing Hughes trying to give someone else tips on how to conduct themselves?

I've said this before and i'll say it again...he is the absolute worst at admitting a decision against his team was correct, the absolute worst at laying the blame at everyone but himself, the absolute worst at going on as if everyone is against his team. He's just the biggest **** in football and has been for a while.

 

[glasgowspur]

Neymar, other players diving doesn't bother me half as much as any if our players doing it. It's the quality of the diving that annoys me.
Also I think there is a difference between making the most of contact , lampard on Saturday, and throwing yourself to the floor when there's no tackle. I hate it when they get touched on the shoulder and their legs crumple or leave the ground, Liverpool one. Why do your legs fail when your shoulder gets hit?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[jts1882]

Mark ****ing Hughes trying to give someone else tips on how to conduct themselves?

I've said this before and i'll say it again...he is the absolute worst at admitting a decision against his team was correct, the absolute worst at laying the blame at everyone but himself, the absolute worst at going on as if everyone is against his team. He's just the biggest **** in football and has been for a while.

What about Bruce? If it wasn't for bad luck and bad decisions his teams would never lose. He's not as arrogant as Hughes but edges him in the blame game.

 

[Jurgen the German]

how much different is knocking someone out of the worldcup by cheating (other than through diving), to getting an opponent suspended through diving?

im with galeforce. you either set the line at 1)assault, or 2) condemn all forms of cheating equally.

imo the singling out of "divers" is disgusting, when the reality is that theyre no different to every other player on the pitch.

Do you not have problem with players diving then? Especially as Glasgow said, when players get touched on their and their legs give way?

 

[Jurgen the German]

But in diving you are cheating twice, winning the foul and getting a player booked for nothing. Foul someone or tug their shirt you know the rap falls on you , diving is falsely accusing someone else.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

Exactly.

Panels are set up to catch players seriously fouling other players when the officials have missed it, why not do the same for diving?

 

[Baleforce]

if we have panels, have em for everything

 

[Jurgen the German]

if we have panels, have em for everything

Unlikely that they have the resources to have panels for everything. Diving and serious foul play are the two worst, for me anyway.

 

[metalgear]

And dubious refereeing decisions too.

 

[Neymar]

Do you not have problem with players diving then? Especially as Glasgow said, when players get touched on their and their legs give way?

im not sure where i stand on the issue tbh.

but i just want some consistency from people who critisize divers. either you condemn all cheaters or set the line at assault. in regards to players' legs suddenly giving way, i dont see how thats any worse than say what the likes of shawcross (and pretty much most footballers) do at corners.

 

[Neymar]

Unlikely that they have the resources to have panels for everything. Diving and serious foul play are the two worst, for me anyway.

i think we (football fans) can all agree that assault/serious foul play should be dissaproved of. However the stance people have on diving is basically dependent on how/where you grew up. I think this is because there isnt anything inherantly wrong with it. And it is usually disliked by cultures which had a heavy working class background, and thus valued traits such as "manliness", "strength", "not-showing-pain" etc. in other cultures, where football developed through other values, diving is often seen as "intelligent"

 

[Neymar]

when you ask someone why they dont liked diving/ divers, their usual response is because it is cheating.

when they are then questioned on why they dont like all other cheats and forms of cheating, they then change their tune somewhat.

i.e in the case of this thread, they dont like diving because it is "cheating twice". thus, insinuating that "cheating once" is now ok. (i know, im exaggerating a bit here)

but basically what it shows is that people dont really know why they dont like diving. they just dont like it because. and when they are asked why they dont like diving, they try to find all sorts of reasons to differentiate it from other forms of cheating so that they can continue to single out diving/divers.

 

[spurspinter1]

when you ask someone why they dont liked diving/ divers, their usual response is because it is cheating.

when they are then questioned on why they dont like all other cheats and forms of cheating, they then change their tune somewhat.

i.e in the case of this thread, they dont like diving because it is "cheating twice". thus, insinuating that "cheating once" is now ok. (i know, im exaggerating a bit here)

but basically what it shows is that people dont really know why they dont like diving. they just dont like it because. and when they are asked why they dont like diving, they try to find all sorts of reasons to differentiate it from other forms of cheating so that they can continue to single out diving/divers.

 

[ShelfLife]

I think diving tends to be viewed as particularly egregious due to this perception that it has 'infected' the English game, having been introduced by foreign elements. There appears to be more tolerance of other types of cheating simply on the basis that they've always been part of the game here.