Injuries

[Raziel]

Again, he, you and I have absolutely no idea what training the players are doing.

Assumptions are being made and conclusions are being jumped to with no evidence at all.

I have no medical, physio or conditioning training, as I suspect is the case for 99% of this forum. Therefore I have no idea what is best for high intensity athletes to be doing between games, just as pretty much everyone else on here has no idea.

Now I would hope (but never guarantee with some of the corner cutting that goes on at Spurs) we have some of the best people in these areas that money can buy. I therefore find it somewhat laughable that people with no knowledge of what should be happening or any knowledge of what is actually happening can make posts saying we're doing it all wrong.

100% and I am not saying (with any certainty) that what is being done

2 injuries in training in our current situation is borderline unacceptable and definitely would trigger a review of wtf are we doing

 

[mudshark]

Look at the intensity of that training!.... ANGE OUT!!!!

I didn't even know we'd started a Morris dancing group. Where are their handkerchiefs?

 

[Muttley]

100% and I am not saying (with any certainty) that what is being done

2 injuries in training in our current situation is borderline unacceptable and definitely would trigger a review of wtf are we doing

Yep, this all sounds like ABA again to me - Anything But Ange.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

His point is valid, if you consistently have 10+ players out of a 22-25 man squad out, hopefully (I/we all don't know), training is very light, almost no contact and everyone anywhere near red line is sitting it out.

We are playing 3 games a week, very little fitness work needed.

The fact that we have lost 2 players in the last week in training is very concerning

Can everyone stop with the 3 games a week nonsense....it's two games a week.

If you want your 3 then it's 1 game the week after

 

[Muttley]

Can everyone stop with the 3 games a week nonsense....it's two games a week.

If you want your 3 then it's 1 game the week after

Totally agree

We should be more focused on whether we have 3 days vs 4 days between games. That 4th day is MASSIVE.

Everton to Hoff = 4 days
Hoff to Leicester = 3 days
Leicester to Elves = 4 days
Elves to Brentford = 3 days
Brentford to Pool = 4 days
Pool to Villa = 3 days

Look closely and the extra day comes for the EFL Cup and EL. It's not for the 3 league games and the FA Cup game.

 

[harr1984]

Yep, this all sounds like ABA again to me - Anything But Ange.

Not really, just pretty obvious you're doing nothing more than guesswork in an area you don't hold expertise, don't have the facts about said players yet trying to put it on Ange.

The funny thing is, were we getting results but having constant injury issues there would not be the thirst that there is right now to blame him for it all - but as it is it's just an easy stick to beat him with without knowing the facts....

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Not really, just pretty obvious you're doing nothing more than guesswork in an area you don't hold expertise, don't have the facts about said players yet trying to put it on Ange.

The funny thing is, were we getting results but having constant injury issues there would not be the thirst that there is right now to blame him for it all - but as it is it's just an easy stick to beat him with without knowing the facts....

I think people are only making an educated guess on the information/facts available.

I'd be careful with forwarding your imaginary alternative scenarios as someone might reply ....when the injuries started clearing up last season and our players returned we still weren't very good. I think that's a fair assessment.

So one might conclude, we've been poor/average with injuries and without. (For periods)

 

[Surfless]

I think people are only making an educated guess on the information/facts available.

I'd be careful with forwarding your imaginary alternative scenarios as someone might reply ....when the injuries started clearing up last season and our players returned we still weren't very good. I think that's a fair assessment.

So one might conclude, we've been poor/average with injuries and without. (For periods)

Might that be two issues contributing?

Injuries plus youthful team....

 

[Bullet]

Again, he, you and I have absolutely no idea what training the players are doing.

Assumptions are being made and conclusions are being jumped to with no evidence at all.

We do have some idea. We see the gym warmups all the time. Today they showed the warmups on the grass and then a VERY gentle drill of 11 v 11 but at 25% energy.

Notice at 11 mins, Sarr waddles over to the gate with the physio and pulls down his sock on his right shin and they discuss a bit of an issue, then he waddles onto the main pitch and Ange asks the physio about it and they are discussing it.

So they knew it was a small issue at that point. Very hard to know how much of an issue, you have to go by the player to a large extent i.e. if the player is hobbling and moaning or saying they are OK.

Personally I don't want any of them outside, I want them all wrapped up warm in an oxygen tent for 72 hours between games.

 

[braineclipse]

Again, he, you and I have absolutely no idea what training the players are doing.

Assumptions are being made and conclusions are being jumped to with no evidence at all.

I have no medical, physio or conditioning training, as I suspect is the case for 99% of this forum. Therefore I have no idea what is best for high intensity athletes to be doing between games, just as pretty much everyone else on here has no idea.

Now I would hope (but never guarantee with some of the corner cutting that goes on at Spurs) we have some of the best people in these areas that money can buy. I therefore find it somewhat laughable that people with no knowledge of what should be happening or any knowledge of what is actually happening can make posts saying we're doing it all wrong.

I remember learning about correlation and causation... If there's significant recency bias and a moderate or stronger emotional response we should imply causality from correlation I think it was.

 

[Robbo]

A few weeks months

 

[billyiddo]

Not really, just pretty obvious you're doing nothing more than guesswork in an area you don't hold expertise, don't have the facts about said players yet trying to put it on Ange.

The funny thing is, were we getting results but having constant injury issues there would not be the thirst that there is right now to blame him for it all - but as it is it's just an easy stick to beat him with without knowing the facts....

The person who has most sway over the players physical condition is and always will be the manager, he's the one in charge of them in game and he's the one in charge of them and the coaching/fitness team at the training center (either directly or indirectly) a massive injury list will always put eyes on him as a result, regardless of results on the pitch. No one knows for certain of course but it's a little bit more than blind guesswork. Especially when he has a reputation for bringing about a high number of injuries throughout his career and has commented saying it's just how it is as players adapt.

 

[thfcsteff]

The person who has most sway over the players physical condition is and always will be the manager, he's the one in charge of them in game and he's the one in charge of them and the coaching/fitness team at the training center (either directly or indirectly) a massive injury list will always put eyes on him as a result, regardless of results on the pitch. No one knows for certain of course but it's a little bit more than blind guesswork. Especially when he has a reputation for bringing about a high number of injuries throughout his career and has commented saying it's just how it is as players adapt.

There have been some interesting podcast appearances from people who worked in these areas with him (one was on FIve Live a couple of days ago - MNC I believe). Worth listening to. I think the single biggest issue is that the fitness staff were hired by the club independent of Ange. What I don't know is whether he wants it that way or accepts it that way. I personally think you need fitness staff who are aware of how a manager works with regards to demands. I agree there is a grey area there we do not know enough about, and the manager will make the final decision, but I believe that Ange does listen very carefully to the staff and numbers on such things.

 

[glasgowspur]

Sarr pulled out of training today apparently

Let’s hope training is his partners name.

 

[thfcsteff]

100% and I am not saying (with any certainty) that what is being done

2 injuries in training in our current situation is borderline unacceptable and definitely would trigger a review of wtf are we doing

We are at a point where they're so tired that reaching for the TV remote from one of those Premier League sized sofas could pull a muscle. If they haven't been reviewing WTF has been going on since November, then the entire fudging lot of them shoulod be sacked (of course they've been reviewing it!)...I'm a 57 year old bloke who does HiT classes three times a week and plays football when I can. For whatever reason, my sleep was a bit off the last 6 days or so. I left my HiT session on Monday night feeling OK but tired. Yesterday I planned to play, but from nowhere, a slight niggle in the left knee had somehow progressed to a painful flare-up! From nothing specific, just attrition (and some stupid combo move involving lunges, weights and one leg balance). Today it feels 95% better but I am sklpping tonight's class and going tomm instead; I cannot afford to leave it too long or else I will fudge myself somewhere else. This is a 57 year old geeeeezer! And attrition vs consistency is the story! I can only imagine the attrition on our squad bodies the last two months, and the importance of not over-working versus not over-resting versus what to do becomes so finite and probably personal to each player. Without being able to rotate a little more, frankly,I expect more injuries and can only hope that as one goes down another comes back. The silver lining of Sarr being out is that he and Spence get a rest before Anfield. I am fully, fully expecting Porro to taco himself soon, it feels impossible that he won't. I think we're beyond the blame game TBH. We're in the 'hope' game!

 

[Dicko]

Let’s hope training is his partners name.

 

[thfcsteff]

When you look at his pattern of mins over January, he's barely made it past 70 mins once. It's very possible we could have been patching him up and getting what we could out of him. I hope it is nothing serious.

This. He broke through last year. We forget how young he is. Add all the international football too.

 

[Muttley]

We do have some idea. We see the gym warmups all the time. Today they showed the warmups on the grass and then a VERY gentle drill of 11 v 11 but at 25% energy.

Notice at 11 mins, Sarr waddles over to the gate with the physio and pulls down his sock on his right shin and they discuss a bit of an issue, then he waddles onto the main pitch and Ange asks the physio about it and they are discussing it.

So they knew it was a small issue at that point. Very hard to know how much of an issue, you have to go by the player to a large extent i.e. if the player is hobbling and moaning or saying they are OK.

Personally I don't want any of them outside, I want them all wrapped up warm in an oxygen tent for 72 hours between games.

It's an interesting watch. Sarr won't take his body even into a 3/4 sprint. He is last joining the next exercise every time and just generally looks like he is protecting something or dead on his feet. Now my impression of Sarr is that he would be one of those annoying athletes that would be first at everything in that type of training. I hope he is OK.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There have been some interesting podcast appearances from people who worked in these areas with him (one was on FIve Live a couple of days ago - MNC I believe). Worth listening to. I think the single biggest issue is that the fitness staff were hired by the club independent of Ange. What I don't know is whether he wants it that way or accepts it that way. I personally think you need fitness staff who are aware of how a manager works with regards to demands. I agree there is a grey area there we do not know enough about, and the manager will make the final decision, but I believe that Ange does listen very carefully to the staff and numbers on such things.

Yeah the guy who talked on that pod also worked here with Poch
IMO he was quite defensive of ange and the audience we’re kinda disappointed because of it

 

[Muttley]

I'd love to understand the end to end process. I think we have the basic picture in our heads that the "coaches" do all the work with the guys and the "medical" team fix them when they break. In the real world, it's probably nothing like that. There must be fitness coaches that condition the players for the coaches. There's the rehab physios that help bring the players back. There's masseurs, yoga/pilates specialists, personal trainers, club doctors etc.