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Injuries

never heard of mcelhone but i see on his linkedin he is open to work, and sounds like he wants a job under ange.
why didn't ange pick him since they worked together under celtic?
highest experience level is with besitkas and celtic - I don't doubt he is knowledgeable but experience in the top 3/4 league in the world is vastly different to the next lower tier.
 
never heard of mcelhone but i see on his linkedin he is open to work, and sounds like he wants a job under ange.
why didn't ange pick him since they worked together under celtic?
highest experience level is with besitkas and celtic - I don't doubt he is knowledgeable but experience in the top 3/4 league in the world is vastly different to the next lower tier.
He says in that interview he doesn't want to go back to being a fitness coach, he has moved past that point now.
 
never heard of mcelhone but i see on his linkedin he is open to work, and sounds like he wants a job under ange.
why didn't ange pick him since they worked together under celtic?
highest experience level is with besitkas and celtic - I don't doubt he is knowledgeable but experience in the top 3/4 league in the world is vastly different to the next lower tier.
He actually worked at Tottenham under Poch by the way
 
From BlueSky
Games missed this season due to injury
30 Odobert
24 Richie
21 VdV
19 Romero / Vicario
14 Moore
11 Davies
9 Udogie
8 Spence
(Then loads of others)
 
I thought Nedum's article wasn't so great actually. Didn't do his research properly. Talks about the Celtic model and completely overlooks that we had a major injury crisis last year. Then says if it's like it in a couple of years then there might be a problem. Do me a favour. We've already had 2 seasons of it, even in a season when we played 41 games. Nedum also talks as if he doesn't even know our playing system and trainign system.

It was a very lazy article that didn't prove either way what is happening.
 
He says in that interview he doesn't want to go back to being a fitness coach, he has moved past that point now.
Maybe he should, looks like he isnt finding much success as an assistant coach so far with his stint at besiktas cut short

Colourful resume though, worked on Brad Friedels goalkeeping academy for a while too.
 
I thought Nedum's article wasn't so great actually. Didn't do his research properly. Talks about the Celtic model and completely overlooks that we had a major injury crisis last year. Then says if it's like it in a couple of years then there might be a problem. Do me a favour. We've already had 2 seasons of it, even in a season when we played 41 games. Nedum also talks as if he doesn't even know our playing system and trainign system.

It was a very lazy article that didn't prove either way what is happening.

Right well to put you on the spot. Is there a common root cause of the injuries we have suffered in the last season and a half and then show us what it is and how it relates to Postecoglu's tenure. You’ll need to account for the goalkeepers and also explain why some players are not injured.

You can ignore Nedum’s explanation of repetitive injuries and come up with your own explanation for these too if you like.
 
Right well to put you on the spot. Is there a common root cause of the injuries we have suffered in the last season and a half and then show us what it is and how it relates to Postecoglu's tenure. You’ll need to account for the goalkeepers and also explain why some players are not injured.

You can ignore Nedum’s explanation of repetitive injuries and come up with your own explanation for these too if you like.

The honest answer is I don't know. I look for patterns.

What I think I saw last season is cases where players finished games but then became unavailable due to something that happened on the training ground. I also saw really leggy players in weekend games after a full week off. That made me wonder about the training, the bit we can't see. As for the games, I think that part is more visible and is measured in every direction by the statisticians. Probably like you, I saw the chart showing the sprints with and without the ball and how far removed we are from the PL pack. I don't think anyone is in doubt that our game intensity if really high. What I would say is that intensity got even higher when the squad got smaller. That created a snowballing effect. I certainly spotted another pattern early where Ange uses more subs from winning positions than losing ones. That builds additional strain but could also be down to losing Richi and Odo for such a long time. They are such natural subs when you're chasing games.

I don't want to sit on the fence, but I do feel that some of the injuries are due to the Spurs philosophy. Others will be just business as normal. The compounding effect is perhaps the interesting area. I certainly don't have a reason to think our medical team aren't up to scratch though. I did have a suspicion at one point (shared also by people like Steff from memory) that there has been less focus on the individual player plans and more focus on the collective. No way of proving though.

What I was also theorising before is the role of the fitness coach, being in the middle between the football coaches and the medical team. They play a critical link role between the 2 parties. They should have the individual plans and be empowered to make sure the player's fitness is optimised.
 
The honest answer is I don't know. I look for patterns.

What I think I saw last season is cases where players finished games but then became unavailable due to something that happened on the training ground. I also saw really leggy players in weekend games after a full week off. That made me wonder about the training, the bit we can't see. As for the games, I think that part is more visible and is measured in every direction by the statisticians. Probably like you, I saw the chart showing the sprints with and without the ball and how far removed we are from the PL pack. I don't think anyone is in doubt that our game intensity if really high. What I would say is that intensity got even higher when the squad got smaller. That created a snowballing effect. I certainly spotted another pattern early where Ange uses more subs from winning positions than losing ones. That builds additional strain but could also be down to losing Richi and Odo for such a long time. They are such natural subs when you're chasing games.

I don't want to sit on the fence, but I do feel that some of the injuries are due to the Spurs philosophy. Others will be just business as normal. The compounding effect is perhaps the interesting area. I certainly don't have a reason to think our medical team aren't up to scratch though. I did have a suspicion at one point (shared also by people like Steff from memory) that there has been less focus on the individual player plans and more focus on the collective. No way of proving though.

What I was also theorising before is the role of the fitness coach, being in the middle between the football coaches and the medical team. They play a critical link role between the 2 parties. They should have the individual plans and be empowered to make sure the player's fitness is optimised.

By the way, I should have added that I'm never one for single root causes. I think it's one of the biggest problem with fans that always want one root cause and a single place to load on their anger. Life doesn't work that way, at least for me.
 
I think the compounding effect is really important.

I think it may be part playing/training style. It may part be Ange being reluctant to sub or rotate in players he doesn't trust (like just about every manager). And part the shortcomings in the squad (numbers, but just as much quality, fit for the system and where they've been in their development). And part just bad luck.

Reset this squad with regards to fitness and injuries. Given that we now have Gray, Bergvall and Spence up to speed (and beyond). Tel, Danso and Kinsky in. I think it could easily be a different story for the rest of the season or next season (probably with more transfers on top). Perhaps with some changes, from Ange, the medical team etc. But mostly also without the need for that.
 
I think the compounding effect is really important.

I think it may be part playing/training style. It may part be Ange being reluctant to sub or rotate in players he doesn't trust (like just about every manager). And part the shortcomings in the squad (numbers, but just as much quality, fit for the system and where they've been in their development). And part just bad luck.
Playing style, training style, subs, rotation, fit to system - they are all ange's responsibility.
 
I think there is always one grey area in my mind. As fans we have this picture that the 1st team coach breaks them and the medical team put them back together and hand them back to the coach. My educated guess is that it is nothing like that. The day to day integration between the 2 teams is probably immense. There's also these guys and gals that aren't dedicated football coaches and they aren't qualified medical folks either. That "fitness" team in the middle plays a massive role in my mind to be the bridge between the 2. They have an individual plan for every player and the player diagnostics to go with it.

So if Ange was overstepping boundaries, deliberate or otherwise, surely the data driven system should inform him. I'd like to think if one of those fitness coaches told him he needs to withdraw someone from training, then he'd listen.
 
I think there is always one grey area in my mind. As fans we have this picture that the 1st team coach breaks them and the medical team put them back together and hand them back to the coach. My educated guess is that it is nothing like that. The day to day integration between the 2 teams is probably immense. There's also these guys and gals that aren't dedicated football coaches and they aren't qualified medical folks either. That "fitness" team in the middle plays a massive role in my mind to be the bridge between the 2. They have an individual plan for every player and the player diagnostics to go with it.

So if Ange was overstepping boundaries, deliberate or otherwise, surely the data driven system should inform him. I'd like to think if one of those fitness coaches told him he needs to withdraw someone from training, then he'd listen.
Agreed. And also the fitness staff will be charting the exertions of each player and telling Ange before a game that players A, B and C are in the red zone and must not go past 70 and player D is on his way back and should only play one half.

It is soooooooo tempting to keep players A, B and C on the pitch when chasing vital points, but then their legs snap and you lose them for 12 games. One has to take one's medicine, accept you only get max70 minutes of them, and work around that so you keep them for the next 12 games.
 
Agreed. And also the fitness staff will be charting the exertions of each player and telling Ange before a game that players A, B and C are in the red zone and must not go past 70 and player D is on his way back and should only play one half.

It is soooooooo tempting to keep players A, B and C on the pitch when chasing vital points, but then their legs snap and you lose them for 12 games. One has to take one's medicine, accept you only get max70 minutes of them, and work around that so you keep them for the next 12 games.
I'm about as far from an expert on these things as one could be.

I'm guessing it's not so clear though. Being the red zone seems like a thing, but then there's probably also going to be borderline cases, somewhat in the red zone, deep in the red zone etc.

Similarly for playing and how many minutes. There's going to be a risk no matter what, but then an increased risk, but to what extent. And how much does that risk increase going past 45, 60, 70, 80 minutes... It's all probably going to be a bunch of grey zones.

Probably there's also a decent zone of risk acceptance that's acceptable for the manager. Has Ange gone outside of that, not sure. But none the less where we are right now probably good to accept less risk overall. Which seems to be the case.
 
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