Jan Vertonghen

[squidseye]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

That's a ****ing outrageous comment! Are you serious?

Are you really saying he slipped and fell on purpose and then weighted that ball to Eto'o?



Spot on imo, people's reactions here and in the ratings thread has been as if he played a total mare all night. He made one massive mistake, but other than that I haven't actually seen people point out a single mistake he made. And the only real difference between Vertonghen's mistake and some of the mistakes Dawson and Bentaleb (amongst others) made was that Vertonghen got punished for his. But because hating on Vertonghen in now in vogue the reactions are so over the top it's even being insinuated that he did it on purpose.

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And I know almost everyone's gut reaction when Sherwood was blaming the characters in the squad was to put Vertonghen up there as the main culprit, but one of the things Sherwood said was "There's a lack of character, too many of them are too nice to each other and you need to show a bit more guts." Does the "too nice to each other" part sound like Vertonghen or perhaps some of the "nice boys" in our squad?

100% Agreed. He's just that stoic serious level-headed northern european type who keeps his emotions in check. We've all seen his blank look when he's celebrating a goal with the team, the befuddled reactions to Walker's goofy pranks.

He's a serious person who takes his profession seriously, and he's been brought up in the Ajax system where there is a particular football culture. Of course when he sees team mates making basic errors, not running into/covering space he is going to be frustrated.

He is one of our very best players and I get angry when I see reactions like those on here. To think he could be hounded out of the club for basically not running around like a headless chicken when things are going to pot...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

100% Agreed. He's just that stoic serious level-headed northern european type who keeps his emotions in check. We've all seen his blank look when he's celebrating a goal with the team, the befuddled reactions to Walker's goofy pranks.

He's a serious person who takes his profession seriously, and he's been brought up in the Ajax system where there is a particular football culture. Of course when he sees team mates making basic errors, not running into/covering space he is going to be frustrated.

He is one of our very best players and I get angry when I see reactions like those on here. To think he could be hounded out of the club for basically not running around like a headless chicken when things are going to pot...

Let's keep some perspective on this mate…and let's not forget that he has already used the media via his agent to plant the seeds of movement this summer. Hardly 'being hounded out'…he doesn't care what people on message boards say, not the least saddos like me taking a pop at him, nope, he's already planning his exit strategy. I don't want him to 'run around like a headless chicken' but I'd like him to do his job to the best of his abilities, something this very talented man clearly has not done this season.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

In fairness to me, I have been on that wagon for a while now. I admit to being a tad harsh with regards to my post a few spaces above, but I stand by the sentiment that he packed in playing at 100% some time ago and that if he doesn't want to be here (is there a question?) on your bike mate! And no, he made two mistakes back-to-back, the first being to turn like that onto a simple pass (it was the turn which caused him to slip, just do the simple thing!) and then the horrific 'pass'…

As for the second boldface, absolutely not him at all, no…but I suspect he is one of the ones Sherwood feels he 'can't rely on'...

Right, so now that's two mistakes? I suppose after he's slipped with the Chelsea player right there next to him he's supposed to just let the ball run away from him. He has to try to make a pass out of it or clear it. In his position clearing it would also have been risky. But nevermind, now we're stating that that situation constitutes two mistakes? Is this what we do for all players now? I suppose Sandro made two mistakes when giving them a goal too? First he positioned his body wrong and then he failed to let it run past him? - Two mistakes? And Walker too, first he doesn't notice the Chelsea player there and goes for the back header and then he's also inaccurate with his header? - Two mistakes?

No, this kind of petty stuff seems to be reserved for Vertonghen.

And I don't care that you've been ahead of the curve hating on him, no extra points in my book. But fair enough, for the sake of argument he made two mistakes there in the space of two seconds. What else did he do wrong? In a dreadful 90 minutes at the Bridge that was it? Despite it being supposedly clear that he's not playing 100%? What's the excuse of the other players then?

And once again it's speculated that Sherwood feels he can't rely on Vertonghen, based on him playing well other than the mistakes following from slipping I suppose? Or perhaps not... Perhaps it's his body language, or him being unhappy playing next to mediocre at best players at this stage of his career...

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Where are we going as a club if we can't make it work with Vertonghen? What's our chances? We can't compete with City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United on wages and transfer fees. We can't sign the "perfect" players, we have to find the better value deals. We have to make it work with players that perhaps had a dip in their careers elsewhere or that perhaps had some other issues elsewhere. We have to be smarter. City and Chelsea could afford to discard one of their most talented signings in the last couple of seasons and move on to sign some more. We can't operate like that. We've seen us be hit and miss in the transfer market just like everyone else, now even one of the hits isn't good enough because his attitude isn't perfect?

And what is it even about his attitude? He wants to play for a better club? He wants to play next to better players? He wants to be successful? He's frustrated when it doesn't work out? This is where we draw the line? This is where a player's attitude is unacceptable to us? Who are we left with then? Where are we going as a club if the players we're happy with is in such a narrow category, with our finances?

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I think the reaction on here have been extreme. It's been compounded by the fact that there have been stories about top 4 or I'm off. We don't know the validity of these stories. Our team has been full of horrendous errors this year it really has.

We have always been mentally weak but this time we are so fragile it is scary.

Vertonghen is one of many players who have under performed badly this year. He has been part of a bigger problem where the ship has been rudderless. The direction from the top changes too often and Sherwood us now trying to plug holes.

We lack an identity.

 

[kinkygerbil]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Thought he played well tell the slip yesterday.

I personally don't think he will be here next season, he wants out

 

[indianspur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Yesterday his slip was unfortunate, but i do think he should have instinctively played the ball out to the sidelines and not tried to play it back to Lloris. He played the ball back into a very dangerous area and that was a mistake. I hope he doesnt leave in the summer, but i dont blame him if he wants to.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Right, so now that's two mistakes? I suppose after he's slipped with the Chelsea player right there next to him he's supposed to just let the ball run away from him. He has to try to make a pass out of it or clear it. In his position clearing it would also have been risky. But nevermind, now we're stating that that situation constitutes two mistakes? Is this what we do for all players now? I suppose Sandro made two mistakes when giving them a goal too? First he positioned his body wrong and then he failed to let it run past him? - Two mistakes? And Walker too, first he doesn't notice the Chelsea player there and goes for the back header and then he's also inaccurate with his header? - Two mistakes?

No, this kind of petty stuff seems to be reserved for Vertonghen.

And I don't care that you've been ahead of the curve hating on him, no extra points in my book. But fair enough, for the sake of argument he made two mistakes there in the space of two seconds. What else did he do wrong? In a dreadful 90 minutes at the Bridge that was it? Despite it being supposedly clear that he's not playing 100%? What's the excuse of the other players then?

And once again it's speculated that Sherwood feels he can't rely on Vertonghen, based on him playing well other than the mistakes following from slipping I suppose? Or perhaps not... Perhaps it's his body language, or him being unhappy playing next to mediocre at best players at this stage of his career...

-----------------------------------

Where are we going as a club if we can't make it work with Vertonghen? What's our chances? We can't compete with City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United on wages and transfer fees. We can't sign the "perfect" players, we have to find the better value deals. We have to make it work with players that perhaps had a dip in their careers elsewhere or that perhaps had some other issues elsewhere. We have to be smarter. City and Chelsea could afford to discard one of their most talented signings in the last couple of seasons and move on to sign some more. We can't operate like that. We've seen us be hit and miss in the transfer market just like everyone else, now even one of the hits isn't good enough because his attitude isn't perfect?

And what is it even about his attitude? He wants to play for a better club? He wants to play next to better players? He wants to be successful? He's frustrated when it doesn't work out? This is where we draw the line? This is where a player's attitude is unacceptable to us? Who are we left with then? Where are we going as a club if the players we're happy with is in such a narrow category, with our finances?

You know? You're right. I am wrong. What a presence Super Jan is.


Sorry. We tentatively agree to disagree. He is playing within himself.

By the way, there are two players recently who wanted out but gave their all until their agents engineered their moves. Gareth Bale and Luka Modric. Say what you like, they played at 100% to the very end.

But yes, I suppose I am being trite in expecting the same of Vertonghen...

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

You know? You're right. I am wrong. What a presence Super Jan is.


Sorry. We tentatively agree to disagree. He is playing within himself.

By the way, there are two players recently who wanted out but gave their all until their agents engineered their moves. Gareth Bale and Luka Modric. Say what you like, they played at 100% to the very end.

But yes, I suppose I am being trite in expecting the same of Vertonghen...

I don't see why he would purposely not play at 100% though?

He's struggling as every other player is. Dawson bless him, has been an accident waiting to happen week in week out. But this nervousness is evident throughout the team. Vertonghen ****ed up. Trust me he must be feeling that more than us. He looked like a mug in a big game seen by thousands.

Yes his reaction after should have been better but the whole teams heads dropped as they always do at these places. The criticism levelled at Vertonghen should not be reserved just for him.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

You know? You're right. I am wrong. What a presence Super Jan is.


Sorry. We tentatively agree to disagree. He is playing within himself.

By the way, there are two players recently who wanted out but gave their all until their agents engineered their moves. Gareth Bale and Luka Modric. Say what you like, they played at 100% to the very end.

But yes, I suppose I am being trite in expecting the same of Vertonghen...

1. "I don't like Vertonghen's body language and reports of him wanting to move if we don't get CL football"
2. "Vertonghen is playing worse than last season when we had a more settled team, a fairly settled manager and better protection of the back 4"
3. "2 must be caused by 1."

Correlation doesn't mean causation. Or do you also have explanations for why some of our other players have underperformed?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

This is the same player who hinted that he wanted out. This is the same player who has chastised the squad for their application. If you are going to that and perform like he has over the last two months, you deserve everything you get. Poor Jan diddums, the nasty people on the internet are having a go at him. There is always someone on here prepared the defend the indefensible. It's called being contrary. I'm not backing off, his attitude is a disgrace, but he is also not alone.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

A lot of opposition fans thought he was being overrated last season as he scored a few goals. I was somewhat inclined to agree with that then and I certainly am now. He's just coasting along, no desire to reach the next level through hard work. Said it before, but I have no problem with selling him in the summer. We'll make a profit and what he currently adds is easily replaced.

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

This is the same player who hinted that he wanted out. This is the same player who has chastised the squad for their application. If you are going to that and perform like he has over the last two months, you deserve everything you get. Poor Jan diddums, the nasty people on the internet are having a go at him. There is always someone on here prepared the defend the indefensible. It's called being contrary. I'm not backing off, his attitude is a disgrace, but he is also not alone.

Depends how you read it.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ottenham-fail-to-qualify-for-champions-league

It's not definite that he's saying wants to leave at all. He wants CL football. With spurs.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Hold up.

1. He is a Centre Back. He's playing out of his position for the team.

2. He did very very well bar the slip. He got forward far more than Naughton, is far far better attacking than Naughton, who is a fullback, and he created chances against a diligent defensive Chelsea team.

Not all of his runs came off, but he was up for it, didn't let his head drop, and kept trying to drive into them. The run where he got to the edge of the box and tried to chip the keeper was one of the better attacking moves today. Granted a number of runs he made with the ball didn't go anywhere, but that was the story of the day and happened with all of our attacking players.

3. Did he play on Wednesday for Belgium?


I'm not saying he can't do better. But ffs he's one of our better players and has done very little wrong to be hung out to dry.

I think you're kind of missing the point. I doubt (m)any on here debate that he's one of our best players but his attitude is quite clearly not great and he has that "what on Earth am I doing playing with these bunch of amateurs?" permanently painted across his face.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Depends how you read it.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ottenham-fail-to-qualify-for-champions-league

It's not definite that he's saying wants to leave at all. He wants CL football. With spurs.

Anyone who really wanted to play UCL with Spurs would not have made those comments in the first place.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I think you're kind of missing the point. I doubt (m)any on here debate that he's one of our best players but his attitude is quite clearly not great and he has that "what on Earth am I doing playing with these bunch of amateurs?" permanently painted across his face.

No, the point is how easily can we replace "one of our best players"? Look at our transfer history, look at our place in the transfer hierarchy, look at our likely budget come the summer. How likely is that we find not one, but two centre backs that are better or as good as Vertonghen?

Or is it more likely that we can make it work with him in the team, perhaps get a manager that can get the best out of someone with "his attitude"? People say he has the "typical Dutch arrogant attitude", well there might be a manager available to us come the summer that's worked really well with some Dutch players in the past. Where some arrogant Dutch players have been important players in teams doing really well...

Or in other words, do we get rid of the very good player sick of playing with "a bunch of amateurs" (your words, not his or mine) or do we get rid of the "amateurs"?

Anyone who really wanted to play UCL with Spurs would not have made those comments in the first place.

Which part of that exactly was so bad? Can you quote the unacceptable part? Seems like a perfectly fine answer to me.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

No, the point is how easily can we replace "one of our best players"? Look at our transfer history, look at our place in the transfer hierarchy, look at our likely budget come the summer. How likely is that we find not one, but two centre backs that are better or as good as Vertonghen?

Or is it more likely that we can make it work with him in the team, perhaps get a manager that can get the best out of someone with "his attitude"? People say he has the "typical Dutch arrogant attitude", well there might be a manager available to us come the summer that's worked really well with some Dutch players in the past. Where some arrogant Dutch players have been important players in teams doing really well...

Or in other words, do we get rid of the very good player sick of playing with "a bunch of amateurs" (your words, not his or mine) or do we get rid of the "amateurs"?

is Jan Dutch?? :lol:

 

[Spaceman]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

id have absolutely no problem selling this guy in the summer. if he feels hes better than us hes certainly not performing like it

 

[indianspur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

id have absolutely no problem selling this guy in the summer. if he feels hes better than us hes certainly not performing like it

we will just buy another foreigner who doesnt give a fcuk about Spurs.......id bring Caulker back if i had my way. Should never have sold him

 

[indianspur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/368866/EXCLUSIVE-Tottenham-target-Valencia-defender-Jeremy-Mathieu-as-Jan-Vertonghen-replacement...............there you go, some 30 year old French journeyman to replace SuperJan

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

is Jan Dutch?? :lol:

Obviously not, but he's spent a lot of his career in Holland and so that's where the comparisons have started I suppose.