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Jan Vertonghen

Rock Strongo said:
It is a silly rule.
On the offside rule: if an attacking player is offside because the defense actively plays him offside with a well organized trap, is not the opposition player active in play? I mean, sometimes a well organized defense will get punished in these situations because a 2nd attacking player can reap the benefits of a defense who's now at a stand still... Probably badly explained but... Anyone get what I'm saying?
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As originally used, any player could be offside, active or not, as it was a method to prevent teams just sticking a big unit up front and lumping balls to him over the defence. But as the game evolved, defences manipulated it to gain a huge advantage*. The rule was revised in the '90s, I think, probably to encourage more attacking play.

But now teams are manipulating the new rule even more, by routinely putting men in front of the keeper, or having players deliberately wander offside, remaining inactive for one phase of play, but then popping up during the next phase. It's making the game impossible to referee consistently. Look at the goal that we scored a few weeks ago, where Eriksen (or was it Kane?) let a through ball go straight past him 'cos he was offside -- the defence pretty much stopped, only for another attacker to react first, sweep in, and score. Can you honestly say that Eriksen was 100% not affecting play?

The only way to make it work properly, IMHO, is to instigate some sort of "if you're offside for one phase, you're out of play until the ball is dead" rule**. Problem is that no human could ever police it -- it'd need every player, along with the ball, to be tagged.

* Essentially, it's all boring boring Arsenal's fault. Yet another reason to hate them.

** Like bidding in poker. You can't not bid during one round and then come back in later!
 
FatBloke said:
As originally used, any player could be offside, active or not, as it was a method to prevent teams just sticking a big unit up front and lumping balls to him over the defence. But as the game evolved, defences manipulated it to gain a huge advantage*. The rule was revised in the '90s, I think, probably to encourage more attacking play.

But now teams are manipulating the new rule even more, by routinely putting men in front of the keeper, or having players deliberately wander offside, remaining inactive for one phase of play, but then popping up during the next phase. It's making the game impossible to referee consistently. Look at the goal that we scored a few weeks ago, where Eriksen (or was it Kane?) let a through ball go straight past him 'cos he was offside -- the defence pretty much stopped, only for another attacker to react first, sweep in, and score. Can you honestly say that Eriksen was 100% not affecting play?

The only way to make it work properly, IMHO, is to instigate some sort of "if you're offside for one phase, you're out of play until the ball is dead" rule**. Problem is that no human could ever police it -- it'd need every player, along with the ball, to be tagged.

* Essentially, it's all boring boring Arsenal's fault. Yet another reason to hate them.

** Like bidding in poker. You can't not bid during one round and then come back in later!
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Nicely put.
 
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no matter where the ball is played from the above is correct.
 
Rock Strongo said:
It is a silly rule.

On the offside rule: if an attacking player is offside because the defense actively plays him offside with a well organized trap, is not the opposition player active in play? I mean, sometimes a well organized defense will get punished in these situations because a 2nd attacking player can reap the benefits of a defense who's now at a stand still... Probably badly explained but... Anyone get what I'm saying?
Click to expand...

In this situation it's the ref's role to decide whether or not that player in the offside position is active in that phase of play. When the rules first stipulated these factors Ruud van Nistelrooy was exceptional at exploiting both the rule itself and the defences indecision due to it being new
 
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FatBloke said:
As originally used, any player could be offside, active or not, as it was a method to prevent teams just sticking a big unit up front and lumping balls to him over the defence. But as the game evolved, defences manipulated it to gain a huge advantage*. The rule was revised in the '90s, I think, probably to encourage more attacking play.

But now teams are manipulating the new rule even more, by routinely putting men in front of the keeper, or having players deliberately wander offside, remaining inactive for one phase of play, but then popping up during the next phase. It's making the game impossible to referee consistently. Look at the goal that we scored a few weeks ago, where Eriksen (or was it Kane?) let a through ball go straight past him 'cos he was offside -- the defence pretty much stopped, only for another attacker to react first, sweep in, and score. Can you honestly say that Eriksen was 100% not affecting play?

The only way to make it work properly, IMHO, is to instigate some sort of "if you're offside for one phase, you're out of play until the ball is dead" rule**. Problem is that no human could ever police it -- it'd need every player, along with the ball, to be tagged.

* Essentially, it's all boring boring Arsenal's fault. Yet another reason to hate them.

** Like bidding in poker. You can't not bid during one round and then come back in later!
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I like the new rule. What I don't like is the referee making the call that someone isn't active when they kick a boot out at the ball. Eriksen letting the ball go through him as he stood still is the maximum I'd allow ;)
 
Notmegov said:
No i definitely don't.
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sorry the way you worded it got me confused - when asked if the 2 man rule exists you said that it does, if you are receiving the ball in the opponents half...but in this particular instance Vertonghen did receive the ball in the opponents half, with only one man between himself and the goal (so the post i replied to infers that he was offside) - so i guess what i should have said was that the important thing is where you are when the pass is played, not only where you receive the ball. Vetonghen was in our half when the pass was played therefore it didn't matter where he was when he received the ball as you can't be offside when you are in your own half when a pass is played.

does that make sense?
 
billyiddo said:
sorry the way you worded it got me confused - when asked if the 2 man rule exists you said that it does, if you are receiving the ball in the opponents half...but in this particular instance Vertonghen did receive the ball in the opponents half, with only one man between himself and the goal (so the post i replied to infers that he was offside) - so i guess what i should have said was that the important thing is where you are when the pass is played, not only where you receive the ball. Vetonghen was in our half when the pass was played therefore it didn't matter where he was when he received the ball as you can't be offside when you are in your own half when a pass is played.

does that make sense?
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Yes, and now i am confused. Are you my wife?

Just re read what you posted. Now that makes perfect sense.
 
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Hold on. . . you can't be offside from a goalkick? i always thought you couldn't but just assumed you can as defenders always seem to push up to the half way line from goal kicks.
 
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