Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[parklane1]

Exactly, 4 points behind Pool (and a top 4 spot) with a game in hand (regardless of how hard that game is) and a decent GD as well. In a cup final and still in two other cups.

A weird season where everyone is having odd results and bad runs, but we are at our usual the sky is fudging falling narrative.

Are you saying that some fans are over reacting? who would have thought.

 

[Raziel]

Are you saying that I think that I am a better football fan than the rest of you are over reacting? who would have thought.

Everyone is entitled to do/think as they please, me .. I will (and have) just avoid this place after bad results .. just not the way I want to enjoy Spurs

 

[parklane1]

Everyone is entitled to do/think as they please, me .. I will (and have) just avoid this place after bad results .. just not the way I want to enjoy Spurs

tickle my balls with a feather, some fans have always over reacted to results for as long as i have watched football but is does seem to be worse in todays football.

 

[NoLimits01]

Personally I can live with the bad results, its watching bad football that hurts

 

[Bishop]

lone win? perhaps it looks bleak compared to the string of 3 losses but looking back to the start of the season makes more sense. I think we beat Leicester, Arsenal, Emirates Marketing Project and Man U so far?

The lone win since Jose clearly lost his way. Up until West Ham I was satisfied with his approach. It was controlled, it was poised and we were deadly on the counter but also played on the front foot much like we did yesterday vs West Brom. After West Ham an ever increasing degree of timidity crept into our play culminating in the Crystal Palace match where we just threw away a decent start. Since then Jose has not had the answer for how to approach games and get the best out of the squad of players he has. Yesterday went someway towards that but I'm not going to assume it is the case just like I didn't write him off after West Ham or even Crystal Palace. I want to see a run of performances along the lines of what we saw yesterday.

To be clear that isn't to say we must win or even play fantastic attacking football but I do want to see an attempt. I also do not want to see flipping Sissoko starting games as a CM, he is a recipe for failure.

 

[metalgear]

in retrospect the low block was the wrong choice but having kane and reggie out affects out game more greatly than we all thought.
i mean if you cut out the individual errors it wouldn't have been that bad. a low block and quick counter can be devastating and exciting too - think chelsea under JM.

 

[Bishop]

in retrospect the low block was the wrong choice but having kane and reggie out affects out game more greatly than we all thought.
i mean if you cut out the individual errors it wouldn't have been that bad. a low block and quick counter can be devastating and exciting too - think chelsea under JM.

Kane and Reggie weren't our for the majority of those games. I think it's a misconception to think the discontent with Jose was borne out entirely from the Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea matches. They were just the latest games in the downward spiral of insipid performances.

I remember his Chelsea side in 04 they played nothing like we have been post West Ham and especially not post Crystal Palace. I watched pretty much all of his Real Madrid games and quite a bit of Inter also and again they had the odd game here and there were they sat very deep when the opposition quality required it but that was not their go to strategy. Just like it shouldn't be ours.

I don't have a problem with counter attacking football, his Real Madrid were breathtaking. I always found his original Chelsea side entertaining. If we played like that I think you would have found far fewer complaints.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Kane and Reggie weren't our for the majority of those games. I think it's a misconception to think the discontent with Jose was borne out entirely from the Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea matches. They were just the latest games in the downward spiral of insipid performances.

I remember his Chelsea side in 04 they played nothing like we have been post West Ham and especially not post Crystal Palace. I watched pretty much all of his Real Madrid games and quite a bit of Inter also and again they had the odd game here and there were they sat very deep when the opposition quality required it but that was not their go to strategy. Just like it shouldn't be ours.

I don't have a problem with counter attacking football, his Real Madrid were breathtaking. I always found his original Chelsea side entertaining. If we played like that I think you would have found far fewer complaints.

But those teams were not formed overnight were they or came with a lot more suitable players to start with (for him)

 

[parklane1]

But those teams were not formed overnight were they or came with a lot more suitable players to start with (for him)

I think that is the most relevant point, we are still a work in progress and what with the number of games and the Covid breaks its not been a easy job. As i have said ( and its easy to see) a lot of the dissent over the way we are playing/results under Jose is coming from those who dislike Jose and never wanted him here.

 

[Raziel]

Kane and Reggie weren't our for the majority of those games. I think it's a misconception to think the discontent with Jose was borne out entirely from the Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea matches. They were just the latest games in the downward spiral of insipid performances.

I remember his Chelsea side in 04 they played nothing like we have been post West Ham and especially not post Crystal Palace. I watched pretty much all of his Real Madrid games and quite a bit of Inter also and again they had the odd game here and there were they sat very deep when the opposition quality required it but that was not their go to strategy. Just like it shouldn't be ours.

I don't have a problem with counter attacking football, his Real Madrid were breathtaking. I always found his original Chelsea side entertaining. If we played like that I think you would have found far fewer complaints.

But isn't that just a case of finding the right balance?

Having Gio, Ndombele, Reguilon, Kane and Son available at the same time makes a difference in our ability to build that primarily counter attacking side

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But isn't that just a case of finding the right balance?

Having Gio, Ndombele, Reguilon, Kane and Son available at the same time makes a difference in our ability to build that primarily counter attacking side

Massive difference
Some pace and intelligence there
We would miss any of them when their out
It’s natural unless you have spent a HUGE sum of money on your squad to up the levels (city brought £159m worth of players this summer just gone alone)

 

[Raziel]

Massive difference
Some pace and intelligence there
We would miss any of them when their out
It’s natural unless you have spent a HUGE sum of money on your squad to up the levels (city brought £159m worth of players this summer just gone alone)

That's the thing, counter attacking depends on pace and the ability to make progressive passes

We saw what Lucas running and Lamela's (and Gio is an upgrade on Lamela) passing did yesterday, vs. a Sissoko/Winks in the team, Davies does a decent shift, but Reguilon's pace is a big part of our game.

To me, we brought in 7 players and had two players (Ndombele and Gio) still to settle plus injury issues, we are struggling for balance. As a comparison Klopp's first year was the opposite of ours, creating tons and conceding all the time, it took over a year and several players (mainly Allison and VVD) to fix that balance issue.

 

[Bishop]

But isn't that just a case of finding the right balance?

Having Gio, Ndombele, Reguilon, Kane and Son available at the same time makes a difference in our ability to build that primarily counter attacking side

I accept that he needs time to mould the system but at the same time he hindered himself with some consistent silly selections. I think we could see how Sissoko just doesn't work in a counter attacking side yet he persisted with his selection ahead of far more suited players in Ndombele and Lo Celso (even Winks to an extent).

That's self inflicted, he wasn't forced into those decisions he decided to make Sissoko a cornerstone of his system. Likewise no one forced him to play 5 at the back with Davies unsuited to the LWB role and Doherty 2ho has no left foot, again these were his choices.

Beyond those obvious critiques the approach and attitude has been very wrong for significant periods. So I want him to succeed ultimately but he's not blameless and could have done better with what he has had available and his own choice of system.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Kane and Reggie weren't our for the majority of those games. I think it's a misconception to think the discontent with Jose was borne out entirely from the Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea matches. They were just the latest games in the downward spiral of insipid performances.

yes definitely this. We've been poor with Kane and Son and lack of attacking philosophy for a while now everyone simply playing out Kane and Son from the game.

As i said, since 29th Nov (before we played WBA this weekend) it was 13 goals in 11 games, two games which we put 3 past Leeds (who wont change formation) and bottom of the table Sheff Utd. Remove those outliers it's 7 goals in 9 games, majority of which had Kane, Son and Reguilon.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I accept that he needs time to mould the system but at the same time he hindered himself with some consistent silly selections. I think we could see how Sissoko just doesn't work in a counter attacking side yet he persisted with his selection ahead of far more suited players in Ndombele and Lo Celso (even Winks to an extent).

That's self inflicted, he wasn't forced into those decisions he decided to make Sissoko a cornerstone of his system. Likewise no one forced him to play 5 at the back with Davies unsuited to the LWB role and Doherty 2ho has no left foot, again these were his choices.

Beyond those obvious critiques the approach and attitude has been very wrong for significant periods. So I want him to succeed ultimately but he's not blameless and could have done better with what he has had available and his own choice of system.

Winks just doesn’t seem quite the same player since undergoing surgery a couple of summers ago and neither shields the defence particularly well nor does those surging runs he did when first bursting onto the scene.



Whilst Lo Celso is now as injury prone as Lamela, so can’t really blame the gaffer for not picking Gio when he’s struggling to ever get match fit.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's the thing, counter attacking depends on pace and the ability to make progressive passes

We saw what Lucas running and Lamela's (and Gio is an upgrade on Lamela) passing did yesterday, vs. a Sissoko/Winks in the team, Davies does a decent shift, but Reguilon's pace is a big part of our game.

To me, we brought in 7 players and had two players (Ndombele and Gio) still to settle plus injury issues, we are struggling for balance. As a comparison Klopp's first year was the opposite of ours, creating tons and conceding all the time, it took over a year and several players (mainly Allison and VVD) to fix that balance issue.

I think with the compete contrast of styles from Poch to Jose you do need the right players for each approach to work
Our platers under Poch took 18 months to master his needs and we saw how they progressed. And because it was high energy, highly effective attacking football you could really see the merits in it
Jose for us so far has flipped us form a scatter gun all out attack, to the team reliant on making no errors at the back and having the best players create... that’s a fine line for success and doesn’t allow any room for anything not working
But it’s probably the 4th or 5th iteration of a Jose system
We had day 1 - just our score them
Then we had high right back
Then we had a more balanced approach pre West Ham
Then we had balls deep defend at all costs
Then we had again a more balanced 3-4-3
And this week we’re back to the pre West Ham system
There are nuances and I’ve simplified it of course. Some people will say we defended deep last year but I’d argue there were games when we just played better teams so had too
The problem with most of them though is you need the right players in place doing their job.
What we also lack IMO is impact players or finishers to use a rugby analogy. People who come on to change or kill the game. Sissoko is the one is see as a player to kill a game - he did it brilliantly vs Leeds. The former though, we just don’t have and it’s something we haven’t had for some time

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Winks just doesn’t seem quite the same player since undergoing surgery a couple of summers ago and neither shields the defence particularly well nor does those surging runs he did when first bursting onto the scene.

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Whilst Lo Celso is now as injury prone as Lamela, so can’t really blame the gaffer for not picking Gio when he’s struggling to ever get match fit.

View attachment 10940

Leeds are arguably the most attacking team in the league
Winks did brilliant defensively in that game (check the stats) and it gave us a platform for attacks (the penalty came form his interception)
The guy can play but everyone judges him on games when he plays with sissoko rather than with a more capable all rounder like Peh.

 

[thfcsteff]

tickle my balls with a feather, I think that I am a better football fan than the rest of you have always over reacted to results for as long as i have watched football but is does seem to be worse in todays football.

Is there a comma missing? Genuine question

 

[tommysvr]

Despite what the naysayers are banging on about we ARE still in the race for a top four spot, most of those who are flapping their gums about getting Jose out are probably a large number of those who were against him getting the job. We shall see.

I was very happy when he came in. But 18 months in, we are no better results-wise and a whole lot worse to watch, with the added bonus of him obviously not sticking around for a long time to build something. What's the point?

 

[Gazza]

I was very happy when he came in. But 18 months in, we are no better results-wise and a whole lot worse to watch, with the added bonus of him obviously not sticking around for a long time to build something. What's the point?

Since he has come in, only Klopp, Pep, and only until recently OGS have got more points than Mourinho. Let that sink in for a minute.