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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

billyiddo said:
you responded talking about objective measures and facts being used instead of subjective feelings - i just pointed out that objectively 1 point per game is poor form and the type of form that would cause Levy to act if not addressed. do you disagree? do you think that type of form can or should be allowed to run unchecked? where would you draw the line?

Ofcourse it's a concern, but it's not like we have serious relegation fears, or drifting away from 4th or out of all cups to be nothing but more of a concern rather than a yardstick to sack him or criticise him at any given moment to try to prove your point.

im talking with regards to mine and yours clashes on the subject over the last few weeks *- it's only the extended run of bad form that has made changing managers a discussion point, prior to that the opinion was simply that i didn't think the performances were sustainable (which proved to be right) and wanted him to find a better balance between defense and attack.

What's been proven right? Nothing. If anything he has proven that he knows how to try to change things up and will stick to his guns as it is a tried and tested method. I'm willing to see the course through without saying I told you so. I did not see you saying anything about his style of play or history or future when we were top of the league, now we are four points adrift from top 4 ... is this really all it takes?

Performances have been poor of late as have the points tally, this however does not mean that he should get sacked. He has not lost the dressing room or the support from Levy, so I'll stick to the side of the professionals this time around.

*though i do find it strange you think im a minority on this, im a ST holder for 20+ years home & away and the majority of people i know from over Spurs are pretty vocal on SM lately about the situation.

Good for you, I would hate to be in and amongst you during any matches when one thing goes wrong. And big whoop you are a ST holder, so am I... and just to be a smug clam I bet my seats are better than yours.


sorry i don't understand your point? i was giving him a free pass v City because they are currently smashing it and it would be unfair to judge him in the midst of poor form on such a fixture
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billyiddo said:
if i only cared about results id check the scores and look a the table at the end of the season and not waste hours of my time talking about what's going on with Spurs online with strangers....

15-16 months in to a managers time is not too early by any standard. AVB lasted no longer (despite having more points on the board than Jose) and Juande Ramos had much less time despite winning a trophy.



objectively speaking our form atm is unsustainable and that is the only reason why talk has ramped up about bringing forward any decision from the summer. Talk prior to this run was only ever regarding being unhappy with performances/nothing to do with changing managers. Surely you can concede that an extended run of less than 1ppg will make the decision for us?

fwiw the City game will be as useful an idicator as to where we are heading as the West Brom game was, ie not very. Everton and West Ham games are two that he needs to get results in to show this run of bad form can be moved on from.
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Not really a fair comparison Jose v AVB/Ramos
You may as well compare him to Sherwood!

who mentioned results

I just stated facts as to where we stand right now

I don’t consider talking online with strangers about Spurs to be a waste of time
I thought that was the point of a Forum
 
parklane1 said:
The barricades are drawn between those that dislike Jose and what he stands for and never wanted him here in the first place ( and its obvious to see that those who never wanted him are rubbing their hands in glee over the last couple of games). The other side of the fence are those who can see that he has been a very good manager( which his trophy haul shows) and are willing to give him time to rebuild a team that was finished as a force and to rebuild a new one.

Now if that rebuild was not hard enough he has had to deal with the Covid effect and the amount of new players he is trying to get fit and intergrate into the team. I think its fair before any decision is made he should get at least to the end of the season to see what happens and then see how we stand.

I get that Jose is not every fans cup of tea but some of the witch hunt by som e fans is over the top and is showing their personal dislike of the manger rather then the situation of the team at this time. A cup final, still in Europe, still in the FA Cup and despite what some are say we are still in with a chance of the top four. Now i am not saying we will win any of those things but he deserves a chance to see if he can help us do that.
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I think you’re missing a third, less vocal group - those that sit somewhere in between these two extremes i.e. those that didn’t want him, but are prepared to give him a chance, as well as those that did want him but now feel he’s not the man for the job.

This forum, as in life, thrives on giving noisy people a platform to air extreme views, when actually there’s a large group of people whose more moderate views often goes unheard.

But hey, this is a discussion board, so opinions are what it’s all about, extreme or otherwise! I’m just not entirely sure they’re representative of the whole fanbase.
 
@Gazza

What was proven was that our poor performances would eventually catch up with us - as i said they would. it wasn't a surprise to some of us that we have gone through the run of poor results we saw in the 9 games leading up to West Brom because the performances prior to that showed what was coming. (as stated at the time)

You may think a run like this is nothng to be concerned about but as the Lame Duck thread shows runs of form like this have always led to a change in manager not long after - doesn't mean it will happen for sure, but it will be an exception to the rule if it doesn't.

And you've missed my point referncing my ST - i was just attempting to highlight that i know a fair few Spurs fans' whose opinions i can gauge quite easily. You could have a look across other anonymous messageboards if you like im sure the same discussions are being widely had on each of them. you've said a couple of times now about me being upset and throwing teenage tantrums but im not the one aiming digs in every other post, so maybe you should take a look at how you come across before taking aim.
 
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DaveT316 said:
I think you’re missing a third, less vocal group - those that sit somewhere in between these two extremes i.e. those that didn’t want him, but are prepared to give him a chance, as well as those that did want him but now feel he’s not the man for the job.

This forum, as in life, thrives on giving noisy people a platform to air extreme views, when actually there’s a large group of people whose more moderate views often goes unheard.

But hey, this is a discussion board, so opinions are what it’s all about, extreme or otherwise! I’m just not entirely sure they’re representative of the whole fanbase.
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I can’t name one person that wanted him in my group of mates
I can name the small group who still are happy to give him time (3 people) and literally everyone else despises him
I’ve heard many references to his time at Chelsea and United by those guys (they don’t mention the trophies one in that time though even though they were won against us in some cases
He is a person who is very divisive. He is also a manager who only cares about results and the end product
But he is here now, and people are entitled to their views as you say
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I can’t name one person that wanted him in my group of mates
I can name the small group who still are happy to give him time (3 people) and non-figuratively everyone else despises him
I’ve heard many references to his time at Chelsea and United by those guys (they don’t mention the trophies one in that time though even though they were won against us in some cases
He is a person who is very divisive. He is also a manager who only cares about results and the end product
But he is here now, and people are entitled to their views as you say
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You’re right, it really is and as long as people treat other’s views with respect, I’ve got no issue with any of it.

Re those not-so-vocal fans, I’ve got about six others in my Spurs ‘circle’. There’s definitely one that wanted him (and still wants him, as he’s a ‘winner’), the rest were largely indifferent when he came and I’d say they’re same now, although recognise the quality of football has been v poor recently without explicitly saying he needs to go. Me and one other wanted him gone as we felt we were trapped in a ‘negative spiral’. So overall, a mixed bag in our small sample of seven.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
I think their showing the squad depth though that others don’t have
There missing a couple of key players but their replacements are still high end very expensive ones
That’s what happens when you can non-figuratively buy anyone and not worry about their actual worth
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Foden is great and free
 
DaveT316 said:
I think you’re missing a third, less vocal group - those that sit somewhere in between these two extremes i.e. those that didn’t want him, but are prepared to give him a chance, as well as those that did want him but now feel he’s not the man for the job.

This forum, as in life, thrives on giving noisy people a platform to air extreme views, when actually there’s a large group of people whose more moderate views often goes unheard.

But hey, this is a discussion board, so opinions are what it’s all about, extreme or otherwise! I’m just not entirely sure they’re representative of the whole fanbase.
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Exactly the literal meaning of a Forum

You don’t have to agree but you can debate without making any smart remarks surely

I’m in the didn’t want him but give him a decent chance camp and loved it when we were top and AFTV were in meltdown
 
DaveT316 said:
You’re right, it really is and as long as people treat other’s views with respect, I’ve got no issue with any of it.

Re those not-so-vocal fans, I’ve got about six others in my Spurs ‘circle’. There’s definitely one that wanted him (and still wants him, as he’s a ‘winner’), the rest were largely indifferent when he came and I’d say they’re same now, although recognise the quality of football has been v poor recently without explicitly saying he needs to go. Me and one other wanted him gone as we felt we were trapped in a ‘negative spiral’. So overall, a mixed bag in our small sample of seven.
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I didn’t want jose
I didn’t want Poch sacked
But as I said at the time we have brought in a manager that has won more trophies than we have as a club... so they can’t all be luck ;)
And he also had won 3 trophies in the time Poch was here, arguably with a weaker side too (at United and yes they weren’t the big trophies) so arguably as much as people don’t like him his methods did work in our very recent history
But he such a divisive character. Hell he is even getting dug out for giving Scarlett his league debut by some... he can’t win in that situation
But assuming he is here until the end of this season he has plenty of games to show some improvements that cabs want to see. Whether that’s a trophy, a CL place, a cup final, or none of the above remains to be seen
 
Personally my main issue with Mourinho is that I've often found our football so dire to watch due to his defensive style. (We’re currently 10th in the league in terms of possession, 13th in terms of shots for, and 14th in terms of shots against).

I think that in isolation you can see the results in a positive or negative light, depending on your priorities and expectations and especially with the season not yet over. But for me the results feel far from positive enough to outweigh my lack of enjoyment at actually watching my team play, even if we do end up winning a cup.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
And the rest of that team?
I think the average cost of the side that one vs pool was about £41m
Scary numbers
Which shows a depth that can be built when money is no object
And Foewn is class
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thought they were a class above against Pool. Alison was classic football slapstic:)
 
StephenH said:
thought they were a class above against Pool. Alison was classic football slapstic:)
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I still think he is the best keeper in the league but he had a mare
City were comfortable though
And pool look tired and a bit lost TBH
They had their game vs their favourite side (us) and haven’t really stepped up
I mean I’d we can take anything from city in the current climate of would be stunning but yet stranger things have happened
Last two games there were odd
The last season one early doors where we scored two but were completely outplayed
And the other after the 1/4 final where we were robbed by the ref and was the better side... but we still looked content to lose
 
elltrev said:
Personally my main issue with Mourinho is that I've often found our football so dire to watch due to his defensive style. (We’re currently 10th in the league in terms of possession, 13th in terms of shots for, and 14th in terms of shots against).

I think that in isolation you can see the results in a positive or negative light, depending on your priorities and expectations and especially with the season not yet over. But for me the results feel far from positive enough to outweigh my lack of enjoyment at actually watching my team play, even if we do end up winning a cup.
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We have had wins that looked bland
And draws that felt like losses
The play ok the pitch has an impact in how the game is perceived
 
parklane1 said:
The barricades are drawn between those that dislike Jose and what he stands for and never wanted him here in the first place ( and its obvious to see that those who never wanted him are rubbing their hands in glee over the last couple of games). The other side of the fence are those who can see that he has been a very good manager( which his trophy haul shows) and are willing to give him time to rebuild a team that was finished as a force and to rebuild a new one.

Now if that rebuild was not hard enough he has had to deal with the Covid effect and the amount of new players he is trying to get fit and intergrate into the team. I think its fair before any decision is made he should get at least to the end of the season to see what happens and then see how we stand.

I get that Jose is not every fans cup of tea but some of the witch hunt by som e fans is over the top and is showing their personal dislike of the manger rather then the situation of the team at this time. A cup final, still in Europe, still in the FA Cup and despite what some are say we are still in with a chance of the top four. Now i am not saying we will win any of those things but he deserves a chance to see if he can help us do that.
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It’s not a binary decision regarding the motives for questioning the current situation. I thought Mourinho was the right appointment and taking sentiment aside from Poch replacing him felt like the right decision. His exit may have even been hastened by the fact Emery was also on his last legs and Mourinho was the outstanding pre proven manager with a track record of delivering trophies.
It’s not a massive difference from accusing anyone delighting in us being top, beating Emirates Marketing Project and Goons and lauding the signings of Hojbjerg and a Reguillon as acts of genius. You are allowed to change your mind based on the current situation. Obviously one or two games is a knee jerk reaction but it’s nit unreasonable to question how much longer a run like the last 10 performances against Prem opponents can last before the chairman decides a change is needed. West Brom was a good performance and result, city is now a free hit due to this and given their current form (5 consecutive prem defeats would take some soul searching from most chairmen. Everton is a funny one, win and the cup run continues but it’s probably more important to beat West Ham. It’s great that some people are more patient than others but personally I don’t see how Mourinho has until the end of the season unless our league form improves.
It’s fine to disagree and you can make a case for your own opinion but it does feel snarky for you to disregard an alternative point of view as not having any foundation. To me demanding his sacking today is not much different to unreservedly giving him until the end of the season. The cups, especially the Europa feel like get out of jail free cards and there is definitely space for people to express that recent form raises concerns that if it doesn’t turn around soon our chances of beating the teams we need to to win those competitions will seem less likely. I tried to not get too carried away either way over a couple of results, but the run we have been on needs to reversed quite quickly to regain confidence that we are progressing rather than regressing.
 
Raziel said:
Results have in that 18 months pretty much been top 4 level (with Covid, with no pre-seasons, with a walking dead squad inherited, with tons of injuries to Kane, Son, Toby, Lloris, Gio, Bergwijn, Lamela, Lucas, Ndombele in that time)

In February we are still in 4 competitions, 4 points outside of top 4 with a game in hand, with a good GD, Kane already at 20 Goals, Son at 17. Loss the same number of games as Chelsea & Leicester, loss one more than Pool, Loss 4 less than the Scum, only United, City and Pool have loss less.

Context is important, yes we have had a bad run, but so has every single team that is in traditional top group. You want to belittle the league cup? somehow Jol, Redknapp, AVB, Poch didn't manage it, it will be what 13 years? and the cup prior to that was another 9? if Jose does it in his first full season, I'm not sure I'd sneer at it.

What are you referring to when you say build something?
- The club has built the infrastructure
- We have a core of a very good team
- We have European experience
- We have a much higher profile than previously

The next step is winning something, non-figuratively any fudging thing, get that monkey off our back so that when a true long term manager comes in he doesn't have to deal with "Spurs hasn't won anything"

Past performance doesn't guarantee future success, but Jose has more trophies in his career than Spurs does in it's history, think about that for just a moment .. maybe, just maybe we give until the end of the season to see if his way that historically worked, will still pay off?

Tell me honestly, if Jose brought home two trophies this season, lets say League and Europa, you think a single person in two years will remember how we played?
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Just to put the above into a little more perspective....

We are in the 5th round of the FA Cup (having not yet played a PL club). Expected.
We are in the round of 32 in the Europa League. Expected
We are in the final of the Carabao Cup. Better than expected.
We are 8th in the league table. Worse than expected.

Jose will get to the end of the season unless the wheels really, really come off.

So far IMO he is probably achieving lower than his chairman’s expectations... but there is a lot of season left yet.
 
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