Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Danishfurniturelover]

I dont think we're Everton or Leicester, but we dont have the means to buy finished article players who are mid 20s and cost £60m - £80m. At least not many of them. We need a manager who can grow players and a team.

The words 'or perhaps a little more proven' at the end of my post above shold perhaps have been stronger - I think there's a big difference between a Nagelsmann say, and a Allegri/Zidane. Rose at Borussia M, or Rodgers, or Nagelmann - more proven than Poch was and more likely to take a longer-term view IMO

If Rose could bring half his team with him we should go for him.

 

[DubaiSpur]

So what we’re looking for is an unproven, proven manager, who is young enough but experienced enough

And we need to sign players who are unproven but could develop (so are a gamble) and ones that the new guy is willing to work with and invest time in (the biggest commodity in football in short supply is time to course)

so who fits the bill???

what I’ll add is that we seem to do better playing wise with managers who we have recruited form within the prem. That familiarity with the needs of the league in normal circumstances is massive as we saw with Harry, Poch and Jol

so back to the unproven/proven conundrum... I guess we’re looking for a guy who has proved a side but maybe not win who has actually win anything as in reality so few managers have actually won much due to the power of the clubs with the £££ ?!?!

We also want a manager who’s team play good football as that’s clearly a Spurs requirement and the fans will not get behind a manager who doesn’t do that

Experience some people have said is important so I guess having some overseas experience is nice to have too.

Looking at that... your looking two managers potentially....

Ralph or potter
I don’t like managers who fawn after their hero’s when they beat them 1 nil at home... and I also have an issue with a team that gets battered more than once

potter has for the prem the hard way via overseas management. That’s a real positive in my book
He has also been in management 10 years so doesn’t have the baggage some may have
He has won manager of the year awards in Sweden but hasn’t won any honours as a manager
He is known for having a very flexible system and set up that means his tree has adapt during games (our team can’t adapt to anything currently)
I mean he is basically Poch but with floppy hair
Would he be accepted by our fans?!!

You missed Rodgers, no?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You missed Rodgers, no?

No
We don’t want a manager who has won things and has baggage

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think people get far too carried away with form. All football fans do not just our fanbase. You’ll often hear fans say “we’re years away from winning the league or getting in the top 4” and “we need 8 new players”. Often you may only need 1-2 special players who can carry a team. Liverpool finished 4th in 2018 and 25 points behind City. Who would have predicted they would win the CL the very next year, cut the gap in the league to just a point and then run away with the title the following season? United were a total mess a couple of years ago, they look on pace to get top 3 again this season. Goes without saying we need to recruit much better and a player stepping up from the academy wouldn’t go amiss but often fans over exaggerate the Dier ness (see what I did there ) of the situation.

 

[billyiddo]

So what we’re looking for is an unproven, proven manager, who is young enough but experienced enough

And we need to sign players who are unproven but could develop (so are a gamble) and ones that the new guy is willing to work with and invest time in (the biggest commodity in football in short supply is time to course)

so who fits the bill???

what I’ll add is that we seem to do better playing wise with managers who we have recruited form within the prem. That familiarity with the needs of the league in normal circumstances is massive as we saw with Harry, Poch and Jol

so back to the unproven/proven conundrum... I guess we’re looking for a guy who has proved a side but maybe not win who has actually win anything as in reality so few managers have actually won much due to the power of the clubs with the £££ ?!?!

We also want a manager who’s team play good football as that’s clearly a Spurs requirement and the fans will not get behind a manager who doesn’t do that

Experience some people have said is important so I guess having some overseas experience is nice to have too.

Looking at that... your looking two managers potentially....

Ralph or potter
I don’t like managers who fawn after their hero’s when they beat them 1 nil at home... and I also have an issue with a team that gets battered more than once

potter has for the prem the hard way via overseas management. That’s a real positive in my book
He has also been in management 10 years so doesn’t have the baggage some may have
He has won manager of the year awards in Sweden but hasn’t won any honours as a manager
He is known for having a very flexible system and set up that means his tree has adapt during games (our team can’t adapt to anything currently)
I mean he is basically Poch but with floppy hair
Would he be accepted by our fans?!!

No
We don’t want a manager who has won things and has baggage

you make some good arguments here in favour of Potter but your unfair characterisation of the opnions held by posters who are unhappy with Mourinho lets you down

 

[Bedfordspurs]

you make some good arguments here in favour of Potter but your unfair characterisation of the opnions held by posters who are unhappy with Mourinho lets you down

I thought I being balanced with the two extremes. We literally have people saying we need a developing guy and others saying we need a winner
I mean there are very much two sides currently which the Jose factor
And my only concern with Potter (I’m biased as I’m a big fan form his days in Sweden when he beat arsenal)

 

[billyiddo]

I thought I being balanced with the two extremes. We non-figuratively have people saying we need a developing guy and others saying we need a winner
I mean there are very much two sides currently which the Jose factor
And my only concern with Potter (I’m biased as I’m a big fan form his days in Sweden when he beat arsenal)

no need for the 'unproven + proven' stuff then as though we need both - people just have different ideas as to the best way to go about a replacement. why do you think we can't have a manager who has won anything? same with Rodgers - what baggage does he have and why is it a problem? all that sillyness just detracts from any point you made thereafer

 

[Diamond Lights]

From F365 Winners & Losers:

There have been 233 matches in the Premier League this season, and so 466 ‘opportunities’ for a team to touch the ball in the opposition box.

Of those 466 opportunities, only 12 times (2.6%) has a team had six touches in the box or fewer in a game. Here’s nine of those 12: Crystal Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Wolves, West Brom (twice), Southampton (twice), Fulham (twice).

Tottenham account for the other three, more than any other club. No other club in the top half even features.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

no need for the 'unproven + proven' stuff then as though we need both - people just have different ideas as to the best way to go about a replacement. why do you think we can't have a manager who has won anything? same with Rodgers - what baggage does he have and why is it a problem? all that sillyness just detracts from any point you made thereafer

I’m not aware of baggage myself but people have raised their comments and fears quite a few times around him
Things around arrogance, history and personality
I met him this summer and he was sound and very short which i didn’t realise

and we do have people who don’t want a proven guy, they want a project guy.. someone to prove himself here. That’s fine. It’s why I tried to capture the two extremes

 

[Bedfordspurs]

From F365 Winners & Losers:

There have been 233 matches in the Premier League this season, and so 466 ‘opportunities’ for a team to touch the ball in the opposition box.

Of those 466 opportunities, only 12 times (2.6%) has a team had six touches in the box or fewer in a game. Here’s nine of those 12: Crystal Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Wolves, West Brom (twice), Southampton (twice), Fulham (twice).

Tottenham account for the other three, more than any other club. No other club in the top half even features.

I saw that at the weekend
What I thought was odd was that at one point straight after Kane’s free kick Moura had 3 touches himself
We also had the weird Kane deflection that was a shot on target even accidentally
Not sure what the other two were TBH

The other games where the touches were low was city at home and Chelsea away I believe

 

[Diamond Lights]

I saw that at the weekend
What I thought was odd was that at one point straight after Kane’s free kick Moura had 3 touches himself
We also had the weird Kane deflection that was a shot on target even accidentally
Not sure what the other two were TBH

The other games where the touches were low was city at home and Chelsea away I believe

Either way, it's not good reading at all. And no one can tell me it's down to 'players' when we see statistics like this. It's down to tactical instructions. The fact we're the only team in top half in this category speaks volumes to that also.

 

[parklane1]

I was vocally anti-Mourinho in the extreme after the Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea games. But despite one win in three since, I’m actually feeling much more positive, as he’s shown me he’s not totally dogmatically committed to the ultra defensive approach of those three games. Even against City I thought we were more positive, playing higher up the pitch and sometimes trying to pass it out from the back (particularly in the first half).

Saying that, there are still some things I’m not a fan of - bringing Sissoko on at HT when we’re losing. His constant chopping and changing defensively. And his management of Alli and Bale (though I appreciate that’s contentious, and none of us have any idea what’s going on behind the scenes).

But the players don’t look to me like they’ve lost all motivation under him, and as others have said he hasn’t gone into total ‘bitter dingdonghead’ mode yet. So I’m feeling on board with him as our manager for now - just hope he sticks to a first choice back four and finds a way of helping them minimise mistakes, and keeps up the more attacking approach of recent games.

I think that is a fair and balanced post.

 

[Raziel]

I think people get far too carried away with form. All football fans do not just our fanbase. You’ll often hear fans say “we’re years away from winning the league or getting in the top 4” and “we need 8 new players”. Often you may only need 1-2 special players who can carry a team. Liverpool finished 4th in 2018 and 25 points behind City. Who would have predicted they would win the CL the very next year, cut the gap in the league to just a point and then run away with the title the following season? United were a total mess a couple of years ago, they look on pace to get top 3 again this season. Goes without saying we need to recruit much better and a player stepping up from the academy wouldn’t go amiss but often fans over exaggerate the Dier ness (see what I did there ) of the situation.

well to use your example -> United without Bruno is a top 10 side, United with Bruno is a top 4 side ..

do think we have another thread for who people would pick as potential next manager

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Either way, it's not good reading at all. And no one can tell me it's down to 'players' when we see statistics like this. It's down to tactical instructions. The fact we're the only team in top half in this category speaks volumes to that also.

Yeah
But the games it happens in adds context I believe which is necessary
I wonder how many of them are against city for example (2 of our 3 are and we won 1)

 

[Raziel]

Yeah
But the games it happens in adds context I believe which is necessary
I wonder how many of them are against city for example (2 of our 3 are and we won 1)

Context

- In all competitions (prior to Saturday's game) we have outscored City
- We have played City, Chelsea and Pool twice already in EPL

The form is brick .. no question, some random stat about touches in opponents box? really no fudging idea what point.

We have two of the top scorers in the PL, we have scored 36 in 23. Could we score more? = sure, it it why our form is brick? = no
The back of the team is the problem, not the front unless you really want to play the fantasy that outscoring your opponent is a viable option (see Leeds, it doesn't)

 

[DubaiSpur]

No
We don’t want a manager who has won things and has baggage

Has Rodgers actually...won things, though?

Celtic doesn't count, a crumpled training cone as a manager could have won things with Celtic, which makes Neil Lennon's job there up against Stevie G even more atrocious.

I get you're making a point about folks like me who dislike Mourinho, mate, but I'm not sure it works with Rodgers. Plus, I feel like most people just dislike him because he seems like a bit of a clam.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Has Rodgers actually...won things, though?

Celtic doesn't count, a crumpled training cone as a manager could have won things with Celtic, which makes Neil Lennon's job there up against Stevie G even more atrocious.

I get you're making a point about folks like me who dislike Mourinho, mate, but I'm not sure it works with Rodgers. Plus, I feel like most people just dislike him because he seems like a bit of a clam.

I’m not
I’m trying to highlight that there is a consensus around what people want...hence hence I went middle ground
I like Rogers and think he has done we where he has been. I don’t know what input he has on purchases but he is known to be a hands on coach

 

[parklane1]

Context

- In all competitions (prior to Saturday's game) we have outscored City
- We have played City, Chelsea and Pool twice already in EPL

The form is brick .. no question, some random stat about touches in opponents box? really no fudging idea what point.

We have two of the top scorers in the PL, we have scored 36 in 23. Could we score more? = sure, it it why our form is brick? = no
The back of the team is the problem, not the front unless you really want to play the fantasy that outscoring your opponent is a viable option (see Leeds, it doesn't)

Some fans get their heads so full of useless stats they swear by them.

 

[billyiddo]

Context

- In all competitions (prior to Saturday's game) we have outscored City
- We have played City, Chelsea and Pool twice already in EPL

The form is brick .. no question, some random stat about touches in opponents box? really no fudging idea what point.

We have two of the top scorers in the PL, we have scored 36 in 23. Could we score more? = sure, it it why our form is brick? = no
The back of the team is the problem, not the front unless you really want to play the fantasy that outscoring your opponent is a viable option (see Leeds, it doesn't)

Since we beat United at Old Trafford we have scored 24 goals in the 19 games that followed, referncing another team that is also not scoring at a particular high rate is not adding context it's a red herring. We've shown in a few games lately that we still are capable of attacking well but they are few and far between over the course of the season and if we are to have a good second half of the season it's here that we need to see the improvment

 

[Raziel]

Since we beat United at Old Trafford we have scored 24 goals in the 19 games that followed, referncing another team that is also not scoring at a particular high rate is not adding context it's a red herring. We've shown in a few games lately that we still are capable of attacking well but they are few and far between over the course of the season and if we are to have a good second half of the season it's here that we need to see the improvment

City as the table leaders with 2nd most goals scored in PL is a red herring? not sure I agree

My point was, better use of the possession when we have the ball, cut out the individual mistakes (especially brick penalties), don't give away initiative with/without ball, better tempo are probably all more interesting observations than "score more to cover up for brick defence" or some random stat about touches in the box .. random stat "Tottenham has hit the post more than any other side in the league" not sure it means brick either.