• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Jose Mourinho - SACKED

elyid said:
I'm in a minority here that I would be sad to see Jose sacked and think he should have more time, or more specifically he should have at least a season after buying a new centre back.

Yes we have been awful on occasion, but there have also been some matches where we seemed like we were "getting it". You also have to give some allowance to the fact we have games every 3-4 days + a few injuries. i.e. we are swapping an already poor defence every match partly due to knocks / injuries rather than by choice.

fwiw West Ham have Us, City, United, Arsenal, Leicester + Chelsea in their next 9 matches.
Conversely, we only have United and Leicester (last day) to play out of the big clubs - we have the "easiest" last 15 matches of any team.

The bottom line is we could still get top 4 and a cup, which realistically is "as good as it gets" until we start getting stadium income.
Click to expand...

Good post and one i agree with totally, lets try and get behind him and the team and see where we are at the end of the season.
 
elyid said:
I'm in a minority here that I would be sad to see Jose sacked and think he should have more time, or more specifically he should have at least a season after buying a new centre back.

Yes we have been awful on occasion, but there have also been some matches where we seemed like we were "getting it". You also have to give some allowance to the fact we have games every 3-4 days + a few injuries. i.e. we are swapping an already poor defence every match partly due to knocks / injuries rather than by choice.

fwiw West Ham have Us, City, United, Arsenal, Leicester + Chelsea in their next 9 matches.
Conversely, we only have United and Leicester (last day) to play out of the big clubs - we have the "easiest" last 15 matches of any team.

The bottom line is we could still get top 4 and a cup, which realistically is "as good as it gets" until we start getting stadium income.
Click to expand...

It’s ok talking about results. What about actual strategy and tactics? Are you happy with what you have seen? And didn’t we bring in a CB? If you think he’s getting 50m for a top class one I think you need to reassess. And that was my point when he was appointed - can he get us moving on a limited budget with players that need coaching? The jury’s out.
 
Raziel said:
Jose plays a counter style, that is what he does, that vs. playing the same way every game is a whole other argument.

There is no blind loyalty here, it's trying to make a proper evaluation vs. just buying into a narrative that people bought into before he joined.
- Yes, he's got transfers in, but arguably his 2nd best/most impactful player in the transfer window has been injured for a good part of the bad run
- 7 players in, with pretty much no preseason, adapting time has to be a factor
- We have played more of the top sides than anyone else (City, Pool, Chelsea twice), so last 15 games will be easier
- We are in a cup final
- We are 4 points off CL spot even after this run of form with a game in hand over a few teams above us.

To your other point, i.e. he's not getting the best out of his players? opinions but
- Kane and Son statistically at least are on track for their best seasons
- Aurier is a much improved player
- PEH looks a better player for Spurs than he ever did at Southampton
- Ndombele has certainly improved
- He's also working on the young players with a loan strategy (that is very different to last manager) that will likely get us a much better version of Sessegnon and Skipp next season

My view is
- As long as we are still in with a shot of CL football next season, and as long as we have a shot at the cup, he stays

The team is still playing, there are still good games, flashes of what could be, if at the end of the season he has failed and the style/consistency of the team is still poor, I have no doubt Levy will make the right choice.
Click to expand...


think this is a good debate to have. a few points from me:

1) Yes Jose plays a counter style, but everyone knows that. And anyone with half a decent team can negate that, hence our terrible record in scoring goals since end of Nov where we've scored like 16 goals in 15 games now or something, because people have clocked on to how to negate that.

2) Injuries - yes we've had some, as have City missing their two best players, Liverpool, West Ham have no strikers. This links back to item 1) - if you only have one method of playing, then even having one injury is incredibly costly. You need alternative plans and options. We've shown time and again we have none.

3) the "easy run" - we've drawn to Wolves, Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Fulham - each game was winnable and we took the lead in all 4. As we have seen though, having an 'easy' run doesn't matter because we don't put teams away often. We dont put teams to the sword or attack with waves. We just score and sit back or worse, concede and offer nothing

4) Kane and Son have been fantastic, because that's how we play, two players. Bergwijn? 0 goals? Moura? 1. Bale? 1. After Kane and Son, our top scorer is Ndombele with 3. Again, he's supplying two players with his only known method and has no other plan on how to play and it shows and is a huge reason why we've fallen behind now people have clocked it.

5) Subs and game management are pretty woeful, and again the stats prove this. We've collapsed and conceded in several games, and have dropped the most points from winning positions in the league. Our attacking stats are some of the worst in the league, where literally we're competing on attacking stats as bad as Sheff Utd and WBA.

Like i said, wanted him to succeed. It's clear he won't, the game has moved on past him. One single counter attacking method of play may work every now and then, but you need far more in this game now, proper in game management, a proper philosphy. He's a dinosaur with neither.

I don't totally blame Levy, it was the only option following the sacking of Poch, but it's clear we will not progress under him at all.
 
I really don't think Levy is this love drunk teenager totally in awe of Mourinho as some suggest. Levy has always made big calls to sack managers when he feels that they cant take us forwards anymore and/or that they are now a negative force.

I also don't believe Levy will keep Mourinho on just for the Carabao Cup Final if he believes that the league form will implode further and key squad become disenfranchised and disillusioned. The Carabao Cup just isn't that important.

Where Mourinho has real credibility though is the Europa League; winning that even if we finished 12th would be a success as it gets us into the Champions League whilst also securing a trophy. Remember he has won the competition with all 3 clubs that he has been involved in it with. I think our continued involvement in the Europa League this year will be more of a key to how long Jose remains at the club.
 
Diamond Lights said:
think this is a good debate to have. a few points from me:

1) Yes Jose plays a counter style, but everyone knows that. And anyone with half a decent team can negate that, hence our terrible record in scoring goals since end of Nov where we've scored like 16 goals in 15 games now or something, because people have clocked on to how to negate that.

2) Injuries - yes we've had some, as have City missing their two best players, Liverpool, West Ham have no strikers. This links back to item 1) - if you only have one method of playing, then even having one injury is incredibly costly. You need alternative plans and options. We've shown time and again we have none.

3) the "easy run" - we've drawn to Wolves, Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Fulham - each game was winnable and we took the lead in all 4. As we have seen though, having an 'easy' run doesn't matter because we don't put teams away often. We dont put teams to the sword or attack with waves. We just score and sit back or worse, concede and offer nothing

4) Kane and Son have been fantastic, because that's how we play, two players. Bergwijn? 0 goals? Moura? 1. Bale? 1. After Kane and Son, our top scorer is Ndombele with 3. Again, he's supplying two players with his only known method and has no other plan on how to play and it shows and is a huge reason why we've fallen behind now people have clocked it.

5) Subs and game management are pretty woeful, and again the stats prove this. We've collapsed and conceded in several games, and have dropped the most points from winning positions in the league. Our attacking stats are some of the worst in the league, where non-figuratively we're competing on attacking stats as bad as Sheff Utd and WBA.

Like i said, wanted him to succeed. It's clear he won't, the game has moved on past him. One single counter attacking method of play may work every now and then, but you need far more in this game now, proper in game management, a proper philosphy. He's a dinosaur with neither.

I don't totally blame Levy, it was the only option following the sacking of Poch, but it's clear we will not progress under him at all.
Click to expand...

Happy to have the debate mate, but lets try to leave out the dinosaur/narrative stuff

1. I think you are missing my point re counter, Jose plays based on what the opposition does (not always counter attack), against top level teams it however often is "keep them in front of you, and hit on counter" I don't think people have sussed it out, I think the midfield hasn't worked (Ndombele, PEH +1, the +1 usually being the issue) and the loss of Reguilon has hampered that.

2. City has so many players it's not even worth the debate, Pool isn't a good example because they are in pretty much relegation form. Who in the league has a plan B? (genuine question because City, Pool, Chelsea, United, Scum have all looked absolutely clueless and had complete brick the bed results this season)

3. Lets see, the season started well -> bad run during which we have had a lot of tough games -> easier run (let's see if we can correct)

4/5 much of the same, depends on how you want to use stats, I could say we have two of the leagues top scorers and assisters, you say only two players attack, I could say we outscored City in all comps and you could reply our XG is brick and we don't have enough touches in opposition box, classic we can make stats align to our view

Here's where we are, you (and others) think Jose is incapable of learning/adapting/improving this side, I think that is a really early statement to make on one of the most successful managers of all time, I'm not saying he absolutely will, I'm just saying lets give him until the Cup Final, if we lose that, are out of Europe and not in with a shot at top 4 at that point, ok, time to move on.
 
GPRD81 said:
I really don't think Levy is this love drunk teenager totally in awe of Mourinho as some suggest. Levy has always made big calls to sack managers when he feels that they cant take us forwards anymore and/or that they are now a negative force.

I also don't believe Levy will keep Mourinho on just for the Carabao Cup Final if he believes that the league form will implode further and key squad become disenfranchised and disillusioned. The Carabao Cup just isn't that important.

Where Mourinho has real credibility though is the Europa League; winning that even if we finished 12th would be a success as it gets us into the Champions League whilst also securing a trophy. Remember he has won the competition with all 3 clubs that he has been involved in it with. I think our continued involvement in the Europa League this year will be more of a key to how long Jose remains at the club.
Click to expand...

Levy will always make the right/tough call, regardless of short term cost.

- it's Europa
- it's also (tired of fudging saying it), we are still only 4 points behind a CL spot
- +Cup final, Jose has the best chance of most of winning the one off against that City side.

If we get cut adrift and knocked out of Europa, everything changes .. until then, the prudent option is wait and see
 
Diamond Lights said:
A lot of defence of Jose and i get it, i want him to succeed and shove it down people's throats as much as you all do.

However, seems to be a bit of blind loyalty which disregards what is actually happening. He's got transfers in, he has some of the best players in the league in their respective positions, he's had injuries as has every other club. We're 9th. He's not getting the best out of the players he has available to him. We have a better squad than a couple of teams above us, but there is nothing on the pitch that shows we have progressed under him.

Neville and Carra brought this up well. Other managers in Top 10, seem to be proactive. Jose is reactive. He's not delivering on the base remit he was given. By all means, keep him until the Summer if you choose, i can't see anything substantial changing under him. Hopefully in the Summer we move on from this experiment.
Click to expand...

Please tell us the positions where he has got the best players in the league.
 
Having read through quite a lot of these 400-plus pages, I'd say the only valid point for wanting him gone right now (in my opinion, that is) is the quality of football on display - which, at the moment, is truly awful.

Sacking a manager at this point of the season should only be a last resort, because there's a real danger of relegation. I've read, here and there, that bringing a new guy in now would allow him to get a few months to assess the squad. Personally, I don't think that's the most efficient way to operate. First of all, because you don't reset everything at the start of the new season. There's no doubt in my mind that Mourinho's first six months at Spurs had a negative effect on his overall situation (because people form opinions in this time, because we had poor results when we were without a striker and these stats are used against him now and because nobody considers this to be his first season at the club).

Second of all, it's easier to bring a new guy in the off-season. I'm pretty sure managers, just like players, are 'interviewed' all the time but some of them will always be reluctant to leave halfway through a season (and that's something I'd put to their credit). I'd also add that there aren't that many great managers current unemployed. By April, Levy should know whether he wants to carry on with Mourinho or not. That's two months to identify and contact a list of potential replacements. Shouldn't be too hard to do.

I think people being fed up with the poor football is fair enough. You don't need to dig up obscure stats or over the top comments to make that point. You don't sack a manager because his team's got a poor number of touches in the opposition area. You don't win two Champions Leagues without being able to coach players. That doesn't make any sense. Likewise, being a so-called 'results manager' doesn't mean you have to deliver results on a weekly basis. That's something you can only assess at the end of the season, unless the wheels are falling off (which, objectively, isn't the case at the moment).

On the other hand, you can probably sack a manager because the team isn't playing the way you expected it to (although, in Mourinho's case, that would be a tad hypocritical). I don't think I enjoy watching us play at the moment more than any other guy, but I still think logic dictates to wait until the end of the season to decide on the manager's fate.
 
@Mr Gogolak

Couple of points regarding your post...

You imply last season is unfairly tarnishing peoples perception but I'd argue that spell was much better than this season.

In the period Mourinho was in charge he had us the 4th best team, this season after a similar number of games we're in 9th, so If anything i believe last seasons revival had (and still has for some) a positive effect on how he was viewed. Based on this season alone? Surely worse than the two combined or in a straight comparison to his part of last season or the season prior to that.

Wrt to sacking mid season i tend to agree with what you are saying, the only argument in favour would be that in this unique season a new manager bounce could be enough to see us jump up to get top 4 still (replacing Lampard on a similar run of form will almost certainly see Chelsea, who were below us at the time, safely in the CL next season) and if you're of the opinion a change will be needed in the summer anyway then having CL football could determine who you could attract/and then also giving them the chance to get off on the best footing. Worth noting Mourinho was sacked in his last two jobs mid season because the clubs were looking up rather than down - in fact that seems to be a common theme with how the big clubs act and is a behaviour we got on board with when we last changed managers.

After the upcoming West Ham game it will have been over a third of a season played since the Arsenal match - tough place to get a result this season so assuming a point (to be fair) that'll give us 13 from 13 and puts us 15th in the table over that period, keeping in mind we sacked the last guy with 14 points from 12 matches and 14th in the table - it's no wonder that it's a talking point due to the similarities in circumstance.
 
Last edited:
Diamond Lights said:
If you don't think Kane is one of the best strikers in the league, Son one of the best Wingers and Ndombele one of the best Midfielders then I'd have to question what League you been watching.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

You are having a laugh. You said best in their positions not among the best. Son and Ndombele are not the best in their positions in the league. They are among top 5 yes but the best, no.

Don't change a goal post you set in your own post. The only Spurs player that is arguably the best in his position is Kane hence why Jose tries to make the most out of him.

Also if it is among the best then I would add Lloris, Aurier and Reguilon. The others meh.
 
braineclipse said:
I hope you're right on league positions...

I agree with your post, and the players still playing for him is a good sign.

The line and judgement criteria are very good questions. For me league position and potential trophies is only part of the picture. Get into the CL somehow and I think he's more or less safe. 5th or 6th with a LC trophy I'm guessing is enough, but not sure. No trophy, no CL and I think he's in trouble, particularly if we finish below 6th.alt

How the team looks for the final months of the season is just as important though. If we struggle in the same ways, either defensively solid, but boring and not creating chances or just super vulnerable, but exciting I don't think that's good enough.

If we start looking like a cohesive side, play well, find some consistency, I think that will get him another season, even if we end up outside the CL and with no trophy.

If we continue to struggle, but somehow scrape a LC win I'm less convinced.
Click to expand...
If we miss out on Europa altogether then he is definitely gone IMO (but sacking him then probably eats up at least half of our transfer budget).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Sherwood - 1.90 points per game
Pochettino - 1.89 points per game
AVB - 1.82 points per game
Redknapp - 1.74 points per game
Mourinho - 1.65 points per game
Martin Jol - 1.5 points per game
Click to expand...

Is that just league games though?

I think the overall win percentage is more use personally, but each to their own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back