thfcsteff
George Hunt
I freely admit that whilst I'd enjoy a LCF win, without CL football it will be pretty much meh. I agree, beggars can't be choosers, but we need to be in order to maintain what we built between 2015-20 IMO.
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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
I freely admit that whilst I'd enjoy a LCF win, without CL football it will be pretty much meh. I agree, beggars can't be choosers, but we need to be in order to maintain what we built between 2015-20 IMO.
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
It's very easy to expect a continuous trajectory of improvement and as fans we want to see nothing but spurs getting better and better .... but this is not reality. Even maintaining pochettinos work is hard enough for anyone from top down at the club.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think that is true right now, in March 2021. I would strenuously argue that in the summer of 2018 more even the summer of 2019 it was absolutely not just reality but a formal duty of care that did not require an enormous amount of imagination. Besides, I think you'll find that Levy would disagree anyway' he didn't spend over a billion quid on a stadium not to continue a trajectory of improvement. In fact, truth be told, who is even talking about a 'trajectory of improvement" more than maintaining par and keeping up with the regular CL football we were qualifying for?
But yes. Given what has transpired, it isn't current reality. You'll forgive me for not getting over-excited if we win the League Cup but don't qualify for the CL. I want to be a chooser and I want to demand a little more than being satisfied with a trophy GGG and Ramos won. Or are our sights so low that we will accept that?
Spoken as a true Poch disciple ...
It’s a really interesting debate @thfcsteff - I’d put a slightly different spin on it. I think it’s not so much that people would be satisfied with a League cup, they’re just sick and tired of the narrative about us not winning anything for a billion years and want that monkey off our back.
I actually agree with you that the joy of winning the League Cup would wear off very quickly - would there be any joy at all?! - should we not qualify for the CL, but I think it’s important to respect that it meets a need for some people too.
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afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Even with sitting back we had chances that our forwards tinkled away. We were poor offensively in those games as well. It is good we have a third threat.
This, a thousand times over .. it's also a sign of progress (not in isolation, but combined with the consistency of PL results, European participation, etc.)
As for the second part, I'd enjoy it for a while, especially against City
And just to stir the pot
win the league cup gets you into Europe's newest competition (Europa Conference League?)
Spoken a true Poch disciple ...
It’s a really interesting debate @thfcsteff - I’d put a slightly different spin on it. I think it’s not so much that people would be satisfied with a League cup, they’re just sick and tired of the narrative about us not winning anything for a billion years and want that monkey off our back.
I actually agree with you that the joy of winning the League Cup would wear off very quickly - would there be any joy at all?! - should we not qualify for the CL, but I think it’s important to respect that it meets a need for some people too.
Winning the league cup won't change anything in how people outside view us - most the chat i see is : Spurs haven't won a major trophy since 91, no one even acknowledges our LC wins under Ramos or Graham.
Winning the Europa would probably be different, 4 European trophies in total pullig us back level with Chelsea and 4 times as many as Arsenal. But ultimately it's pretty telling the major reason we seemingly want to win these trophies is so we can give it back to people who have been giving us stick, rather than for the actual glory of winning them...
As for the new Uefa trophy, that's going to be even less prestigious than the Europa, a total waste of everyone's time.
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Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
IMO in order of priority
1. league title - the toughest to win
2. Champions league - the hardest to win as you don’t get second chances in reality and in theory the biggest teams prioritise it
3. Europa - it’s rewards are bigger than any other cup we play domestically
4/5. Any domestic cup. In reality it’s silverware but also they don’t carry much sway globally. However we can’t be picky having won nothing in such a loooong time
I do think Poch missed a trick with some of the domestic cups at times but we also had some bad luck, some bad performances with better players and key games at tricky times.
To be winners you need to win something. Arsenal fans crow about Pepe being better than Kane because he has won an FA cup. It’s bonkers to compare the two players but it’s a medal he has around his neck that Kane doesn’t
1. league title - the toughest to win
2. Champions league - the hardest to win as you don’t get second chances in reality and in theory the biggest teams prioritise it
3. Europa - it’s rewards are bigger than any other cup we play domestically
4/5. Any domestic cup. In reality it’s silverware but also they don’t carry much sway globally. However we can’t be picky having won nothing in such a loooong time
I do think Poch missed a trick with some of the domestic cups at times but we also had some bad luck, some bad performances with better players and key games at tricky times.
To be winners you need to win something. Arsenal fans crow about Pepe being better than Kane because he has won an FA cup. It’s bonkers to compare the two players but it’s a medal he has around his neck that Kane doesn’t
Where on earth have you seen this behavior?
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Plenty of social media places
Yep... 12 year olds arguing but how do you counter attacking medals?
If you don't waste your time arguing with 12 year olds you don't have to worry about countering nonsensical arguments.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I agree with your priorities, although I'd flip the first two, winning the European Cup is the pinnacle of the sport, the actual point of playing football.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
point out that they are stupid little trophies with no value in the modern game
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Winning the League Cup isn't a sign of progress at all, as evidenced by Juande Ramos as well as Swansea and Birmingham City who have won it since us.This, a thousand times over .. it's also a sign of progress (not in isolation, but combined with the consistency of PL results, European participation, etc.)
As for the second part, I'd enjoy it for a while, especially against City
And just to stir the pot
UEFA demoting our league Cup winners to a third tier European competition makes it even less prestigious than it was previously.
Winning the League Cup means a great day for the fans and a trophy on the honours board, IMO it doesn't represent any sign of progress at all.
I would put it like this
Priorities are : League> Europe> Domestic Cups
The league is your bread butter and shows the progress you are making relative to those around you - your aim at the beginning of every season is to improve on where you finished last season. If you don't and if you're going backwards then questions get asked.
Europe is the glamour of competing with the best teams in the game.
Domestic cups are opportunistic - there to be won if you've navigated the early rounds and something to put on the shelf.
Priorities are : League> Europe> Domestic Cups
The league is your bread butter and shows the progress you are making relative to those around you - your aim at the beginning of every season is to improve on where you finished last season. If you don't and if you're going backwards then questions get asked.
Europe is the glamour of competing with the best teams in the game.
Domestic cups are opportunistic - there to be won if you've navigated the early rounds and something to put on the shelf.
And what about the players? They want to see trophies and medals to look back on. Reminiscing about the days of coming top 4 in the league and losing semis and finals even isn’t what they want.
As for the League cup, Emirates Marketing Project have won it five of the last seven years and inbetween that was a Man U and Chelsea, it is still mainly the big teams that won it. So would be good to see our name back on there, even if it’s not the main trophy we want we aren’t in a position to look down on it and beating Emirates Marketing Project in any final is an achievement and gets that monkey off our back....
Kane & Son have stayed at Tottenham longer than any of our stars previous - why do you think that is? Why is that 1 year out of the top 4 and the prospect of a 2nd to follow has their future cast in doubt?
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spurspinter1
Steve Carr
It's been waaay too long since we've last had the league success / trophies debate, so glad to see it pop up again in the Jose thread!
Kane is a Spurs man, Modric and Berbatov never were. Son isn’t at that level, he might be getting there but the big boys havent seemingly been sniffing around him (purely judging by lack of transfer speculation compared to our other stars) Im sure Kane thought we would have won something by now, and the fact we haven’t he’s well within his rights to question whether we ever will during his playing years and move on if he wants to....
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Every year their leaving us at some point or another
The reality is no one can justify the fees we would want for them or have other priorities