Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[lurker of old]

This has as much to do with "how" as "what".
I enjoyed Treepits post - a good reminder not to sound "entitled". But there is a feeling that under Rednap and Poch we played more attractive football - swashbuckling, to dare is to do stuff. Losing is one thing, but when we lose without playing Bale and Dele, then any coach would get blamed big time. Mourinho is a pragmatist - if his cautious style won games we would tolerate it, but if his style doesn't win, surely he has to go.
To a degree you create your own luck, and his style hasn't created much of anything.....

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

All good mate. Opinions, etc. "Slapping you"? Why? Your view is as valid as anyone elses I'd have thought?

A few things though.

1) You really should remember who we beat in the SF in 2008.

2) "Entitled pricks"? It is the minimum promised.

3) This has as much to do with "how" as "what". Put simply, where has our identity gone and who took it?

Whilst I agree that our style of play is not what some would like there are many who have in the recent passed said they would settle for silverware over style. On the subject of club identity, we are the clubs soul as much as the staff, many clubs are disliked due to the attitude of their "fans" rather than their style of play, over the passed recent purple patch I feel a lot of our "fans" have become entitled followers. I always want us to play well and win but accept it may not happen, just sit back and enjoy the ride or find a club that meets your needs, as this club has never been as dominate as others in the almost 100 years my family has followed them.

 

[StephenH]

Until we have a modern football thinking manager in place, discussing the current squad is pointless.
We will not sell anybody until the new guy has had a chance to work with and educate and evaluate all the players.

 

[parklane1]

I don’t post on here very often and I’m aware I’m about to get slapped about but the vitriol against Jose on here is shocking. I guess part of it is because we were doing so well and the wheels fell off spectacularly but we have a chance of a trophy and a top 4/6 finish which taken on merit, would make this one of our most successful seasons in the past 30 years!

Come the end of the season and we’ve finished 9th after getting spanked by city, fine everyone can do their anti Jose thing but I’m going to keep supporting him and the team until then. Do I think we’ll beat city? No. Do I think we’ll come top 4? No. Top 6? Possibly, looking at the run in. But we’re coming across as entitled pricks if we feel this season is a disaster if we don’t finish top 4

Oh, and people are moaning we only got to the final because we beat Chelsea on pens then played lower league opposition. So fudging what? I have no idea who we beat in 2008 to get to the final, or 1999 (tho I remember Iversen’s winner v Wimbledon in the semi) but it didn’t stop me enjoying winning a trophy

That’s my lot, I’m getting up to sort the kids out and then I’m out all day so you’ve all got tons of time to tell me why I’m a prick without me responding. Enjoy!

COYS

You should post on here more often mate as your post sums the situation up spot on.

 

[treepits]

All good mate. Opinions, etc. "Slapping you"? Why? Your view is as valid as anyone elses I'd have thought?

A few things though.

1) You really should remember who we beat in the SF in 2008.

2) "Entitled pricks"? It is the minimum promised.

3) This has as much to do with "how" as "what". Put simply, where has our identity gone and who took it?

I appreciate you warding off the slaps!

1) yes, as soon as I read this I realised it’s not one I should have forgotten! But it kind of backs up my point a little - I don’t care about our route to the final, I just want to win a trophy

2) was it promised? To get top 4, we need to finish above one, at least, of city, United Liverpool and Chelsea who’s spending power is massively above ours. So if it was promised then we shouldn’t be too hard on the club if it doesn’t deliver

3) I don’t totally get the identity thing. What is/was our identity? Push and run? Swashbuckling football that ultimately flounders? My daughters are 10 and 7 and have never seen us win a trophy (not that they give a brick, it’s all fudging my little pony this and minecraft that) and that’s not good enough for a club of our size. So I don’t care about identity because in 15 years time, should we beat city and I’m watching back the highlights of our win against city, I’ll neither remember nor care how that win came about, just like I dont when I occasionally watch the highlights of other long ago trophy wins

I won’t lie, I was delighted when Jose was appointed because I truly believed he’d take us onto the next level and for 2-3 months it looked like he might just do that. It hasn’t worked out and I’m not blinkered to think part of that is not his fault but the abuse he’s getting from many in here doesn’t sit well with me especially as life as a Tottenham fan has been far far worse than it is now

 

[treepits]

This has as much to do with "how" as "what".
I enjoyed Treepits post - a good reminder not to sound "entitled". But there is a feeling that under Rednap and Poch we played more attractive football - swashbuckling, to dare is to do stuff. Losing is one thing, but when we lose without playing Bale and Dele, then any coach would get blamed big time. Mourinho is a pragmatist - if his cautious style won games we would tolerate it, but if his style doesn't win, surely he has to go.
To a degree you create your own luck, and his style hasn't created much of anything.....

There’s no doubt we played some better swashbuckling stuff under Harry and Poch, and it brought some great memories, I’m thinking in participating the 1-0 at city and a certain game in Ajax, but we won nothing and that’s how their eras will ultimately be defined

I disagree that losing without bale and dele is worse, it would be easier to just play the ‘big’ names week in week out but dele has been off the boil for a while and there’s something obviously not clicking with bale for one reason or another

 

[glasgowspur]

I appreciate you warding off the slaps!

1) yes, as soon as I read this I realised it’s not one I should have forgotten! But it kind of backs up my point a little - I don’t care about our route to the final, I just want to win a trophy

2) was it promised? To get top 4, we need to finish above one, at least, of city, United Liverpool and Chelsea who’s spending power is massively above ours. So if it was promised then we shouldn’t be too hard on the club if it doesn’t deliver

3) I don’t totally get the identity thing. What is/was our identity? Push and run? Swashbuckling football that ultimately flounders? My daughters are 10 and 7 and have never seen us win a trophy (not that they give a brick, it’s all fudging my little pony this and minecraft that) and that’s not good enough for a club of our size. So I don’t care about identity because in 15 years time, should we beat city and I’m watching back the highlights of our win against city, I’ll neither remember nor care how that win came about, just like I dont when I occasionally watch the highlights of other long ago trophy wins

I won’t lie, I was delighted when Jose was appointed because I truly believed he’d take us onto the next level and for 2-3 months it looked like he might just do that. It hasn’t worked out and I’m not blinkered to think part of that is not his fault but the abuse he’s getting from many in here doesn’t sit well with me especially as life as a Tottenham fan has been far far worse than it is now

You make a lot good points and there is sense in much of it, but I'm not sure about the last point.
Yes the team has been worse, but at least we we actually played and achieved what was expected of them.
We are now underachieving and I find that worse.
And its been going on longer than Jose being here.

 

[Mikey10]

I don’t post on here very often and I’m aware I’m about to get slapped about but the vitriol against Jose on here is shocking. I guess part of it is because we were doing so well and the wheels fell off spectacularly but we have a chance of a trophy and a top 4/6 finish which taken on merit, would make this one of our most successful seasons in the past 30 years!

Come the end of the season and we’ve finished 9th after getting spanked by city, fine everyone can do their anti Jose thing but I’m going to keep supporting him and the team until then. Do I think we’ll beat city? No. Do I think we’ll come top 4? No. Top 6? Possibly, looking at the run in. But we’re coming across as entitled pricks if we feel this season is a disaster if we don’t finish top 4

Oh, and people are moaning we only got to the final because we beat Chelsea on pens then played lower league opposition. So fudging what? I have no idea who we beat in 2008 to get to the final, or 1999 (tho I remember Iversen’s winner v Wimbledon in the semi) but it didn’t stop me enjoying winning a trophy

That’s my lot, I’m getting up to sort the kids out and then I’m out all day so you’ve all got tons of time to tell me why I’m a prick without me responding. Enjoy!

COYS

Spot on.

 

[Mikey10]

You make a lot good points and there is sense in much of it, but I'm not sure about the last point.
Yes the team has been worse, but at least we we actually played and achieved what was expected of them.
We are now underachieving and I find that worse.
And its been going on longer than Jose being here.

I’m not sure we are underachieving with the squad we currently have.

We have one consistently world class player; one who can be world class but who blows hot and cold; and a couple of other big name players, neither of whom have shown much for a couple of years now.

Aside from that, the rest of our squad is made up of players of average (and, in a number of cases, declining) ability; and the majority of them have shown under two managers that they struggle when put under any sort of pressure.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Agree with the wake-up 'slap' to entitled fans. People forget we were midtable for a long time, and how much better we are now. There are hundreds of clubs who'd love to have our problems. I don't care if we win trophies, it won't change my affinity with this team.

But...

...the reason Mourinho has to go is because he has failed to develop players (Moura excepting?) or the way we play. Mourinho is divisive and negative. Maybe when younger he was more gallant, but he defaults to caution now, and has failed to get the team balanced. The issues were clear from Poch, our midfield and defense needed work. Mourinho is not the manager to take disparate players and help them develop into a unit. He doesn't have the attention or patience.

But...

..Mourinho is not a bad manager, he is intelligent. He has been completely undone by our defense. It is his defense of course, and he should take responsibility. But if you're a manager who buys the players you need, and you don't have the ability or patience to develop talent and build a team unit, then we can't really criticise him too much. It is not his skill set. He is never going to be that guy. If Levy wanted a manager who could take a bunch of average players and mold them into something, he should have stuck with Poch.

So if Mourinho had a defensive foundation, he probably would do okay with us. He could start to develop our play - passing, movement etc. But for a manager whose Modus Operandi is to defend first, he can't get past step one. It undermines his identity and philosophy, and we end up compromised playing odd football to try to defend better. It is a mess.

Where do I stand on Mourinho? He is a decent manager, who needs ready-made players. Despite Levy liking him, Mourinho doesn't compliment Levy's own strategy. I believe that if you gave Mourinho enough time and money he could deliver. But he won't be bringing through potential players like Poch did. He won't be fixing broken defenses by helping players develop. He needs to be able to buy ready-made players who'll slot into his system.

 

[billyiddo]

Most of the criticism towards Mourinho isn't centered on where we are in the league so i don't really get the entitled fans jibe - is it entitled to want to see a well coached team playing good football?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Most of the criticism towards Mourinho isn't centered on where we are in the league so i don't really get the entitled fans jibe - is it entitled to want to see a well coached team playing good football?

Exactly this. I had enough of Mourinho after the home Liverpool game but not just because I didn't think we'd get top 4. It'd be dumb to expect to finish ahead of 3 of City, Liverpool, United, City, Woolwich, Chelsea and Leicester. Getting top 4 would be successful but finishing 5th or 6th isn't disastrous by any means.

It's the eye gougingly bad football. It's the repeated mistakes. Take a lead, sit back, get dominated, concede. It's the way Mourinho carries himself.

Thats why I want him out. Mourinho is poison.

 

[Baleforce]

So...

Er...

With continental pot participation confirmed forever, has Jose achieved his goal?

 

[nerdved]

So...

Er...

With continental pot participation confirmed forever, has Jose achieved his goal?

Destroyer of clubs confirmed, although this last thing is a stretch to pin on him.

 

[Bishop]

I don’t post on here very often and I’m aware I’m about to get slapped about but the vitriol against Jose on here is shocking. I guess part of it is because we were doing so well and the wheels fell off spectacularly but we have a chance of a trophy and a top 4/6 finish which taken on merit, would make this one of our most successful seasons in the past 30 years!

Come the end of the season and we’ve finished 9th after getting spanked by city, fine everyone can do their anti Jose thing but I’m going to keep supporting him and the team until then. Do I think we’ll beat city? No. Do I think we’ll come top 4? No. Top 6? Possibly, looking at the run in. But we’re coming across as entitled pricks if we feel this season is a disaster if we don’t finish top 4

Oh, and people are moaning we only got to the final because we beat Chelsea on pens then played lower league opposition. So fudging what? I have no idea who we beat in 2008 to get to the final, or 1999 (tho I remember Iversen’s winner v Wimbledon in the semi) but it didn’t stop me enjoying winning a trophy

That’s my lot, I’m getting up to sort the kids out and then I’m out all day so you’ve all got tons of time to tell me why I’m a prick without me responding. Enjoy!

COYS

I don't care where we finish in the league. I care though that the football we watch is bloody awful. Calling us a disorganised rabble is being kind. We play as if we have no bloody idea what we are supposed to be doing. That bothers me.

We have some talent (and a lot of dross) but can I say I believe the current manager is getting a tune out of the squad? That is a definite no for me.

Do I believe he can turn it around? Maybe if Levy turns in to a proactive chairman and moves decisively in the the window, but that's unlikely so I don't see that he has a future here and we need to move him on.

We need a coach who can get the best out of the players provided to them no matter their status and that has never been Mourinho's MO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Most of the criticism towards Mourinho isn't centered on where we are in the league so i don't really get the entitled fans jibe - is it entitled to want to see a well coached team playing good football?

Thank you

 

[thfcsteff]

Whilst I agree that our style of play is not what some would like there are many who have in the recent passed said they would settle for silverware over style. On the subject of club identity, we are the clubs soul as much as the staff, many clubs are disliked due to the attitude of their "fans" rather than their style of play, over the passed recent purple patch I feel a lot of our "fans" have become entitled followers. I always want us to play well and win but accept it may not happen, just sit back and enjoy the ride or find a club that meets your needs, as this club has never been as dominate as others in the almost 100 years my family has followed them.

You have missed my sentiment entirely. And somehow managed to think that I am not aware of the club I have supported and watched from the dark days of Terry Neil to the great days of Poch.

As a supporter I had resigned myself to Mouball with the caveat that we might win. OK. Let's see. Well, thus far nothing on any level.

In fact (and doubtless to the delight of PL1 and a few others) Poch is a great example. Because when we weren't playing well under him, we still had identity and some special vibe. I'd have gladly accepted a two season rebuild with him. This? Devoid of a soul.

I don't give a toss about "domination" I care about entertainment, style and standing for something. Blanchflower said it best, the game is about glory...this is NOT glorious mate.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

You have missed my sentiment entirely. And somehow managed to think that I am not aware of the club I have supported and watched from the dark days of Terry Neil to the great days of Poch.

As a supporter I had resigned myself to Mouball with the caveat that we might win. OK. Let's see. Well, thus far nothing on any level.

In fact (and doubtless to the delight of PL1 and a few others) Poch is a great example. Because when we weren't playing well under him, we still had identity and some special vibe. I'd have gladly accepted a two season rebuild with him. This? Devoid of a soul.

I don't give a toss about "domination" I care about entertainment, style and standing for something. Blanchflower said it best, the game is about glory...this is NOT glorious mate.

I agree totally with your ideals, but I was just trying to point out that many of our followers wanted trophies and were not so concerned with style. As I've said many times I want to be entertained and see our players do extraordinary things, I accept we may not win the league or cups. People cant come to terms with the fact there are only 4 throphies that can be won and given our current squad and resources we have only a chance of winning one of the lesser ones and then only if we focus totally on that. I would have thought our current manager would have installed a more killer instinct in the team but it appears either him or players cant do it, hopefully whatever changes that are made give thought of us who want a more pleasing to the eye style their wish even if it doesnt allow us to believe we've won sometime.

 

[Baleforce]

I’d prefer to win in a way that actually tinkles off the opposition too, to leave them feeling like they’ve been cheated and really make them hurt, bitter, angry, leave them with mental scars that never heal.

Revenge basically.

 

[vkn17]

Multiple sources saying he has been sacked?!