Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Finney Is Back]

I want to give him the chance to continue bringing in players over the next two windows then see where he goes with it - this summer we recruited well but it's only half the job that needed doing, unfair to judge him on a job where so much is up in the air with regards to the squad

I'm with you. I think the fact that Pochettino has taken us to 4 CL qualifications in a row means he should be forgiven for a bad season.

I'd like to see him properly backed in the next two windows (with those he wants sold as well as bought) and then see where we are next season.

Our managerial recruitment record over the past GHod knows how long shows that we're not exactly a slam dunk at making the right appointment, so better to stick with a manager who has done very good things for the club for now.

I do think Pochettino does have to make some concessions himself though and phase out those not committed to staying. Eriksen, Rose, Eriksen, Alderweireld and Aurier should be nowhere nearer to the first team than the bench (and perhaps not even that close).

 

[Pirate55]

I'm with you. I think the fact that Pochettino has taken us to 4 CL qualifications in a row means he should be forgiven for a bad season.

I'd like to see him properly backed in the next two windows (with those he wants sold as well as bought) and then see where we are next season.

Our managerial recruitment record over the past GHod knows how long shows that we're not exactly a slam dunk at making the right appointment, so better to stick with a manager who has done very good things for the club for now.

I do think Pochettino does have to make some concessions himself though and phase out those not committed to staying. Eriksen, Rose, Eriksen, Alderweireld and Aurier should be nowhere nearer to the first team than the bench (and perhaps not even that close).

Even with a double Eriksen - I largely agree with you. However, I am not exactly convinced by Poch's track record of signing new players. He has certainly sanctioned a fair share of duds. He needs to be ruthless now and make sure all those that are playing have a future with us. Back to complete basics and then lets see how good a coach he really is.

I am halfway between Billy and Nayim. I would give Poch till Christmas to see if we can at least see some signs of improvement . We should have LoCelso, NDombele and Sessegnon fit and firing by then. That should give us a fair indication if his rebuilding plans are along the right lines ....or we have bought some more duds.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm with you. I think the fact that Pochettino has taken us to 4 CL qualifications in a row means he should be forgiven for a bad season.

I'd like to see him properly backed in the next two windows (with those he wants sold as well as bought) and then see where we are next season.

Our managerial recruitment record over the past GHod knows how long shows that we're not exactly a slam dunk at making the right appointment, so better to stick with a manager who has done very good things for the club for now.

I do think Pochettino does have to make some concessions himself though and phase out those not committed to staying. Eriksen, Rose, Eriksen, Alderweireld and Aurier should be nowhere nearer to the first team than the bench (and perhaps not even that close).

I agree.

We were terrible last season, what do we do if we continue to be brick this season?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree.

We were terrible last season, what do we do if we continue to be brick this season?

We finished 4th and reached the CL final. Only two managers have taken us to league finishes that high or higher since the PL began. Harry Redknapp (twice) and Pochettino (4 times). It was poor compared to Pochettino's previous three seasons but incredible compared to every other manager we've had since the PL was formed and football changed.

If we're poor this season and then start the season poorly after Pochettino has been properly backed by the chairman then I think it is fair to say thanks but your time is done here Mauricio, until then I think we should stay loyal.

 

[monkeybarry]

I want to give him the chance to continue bringing in players over the next two windows then see where he goes with it - this summer we recruited well but it's only half the job that needed doing, unfair to judge him on a job where so much is up in the air with regards to the squad

I want to see where we are in table and what the squad harmony is like at the start of December.
He has a job to do to turn results around - that might new some grinding and building for a few months. It's his job

 

[Legohamster]

He gets the season at least from me

I don’t think anyone can put a time of how long they will give him.

What if we don’t win the next 10 (as an extreme) he would have to go.

We finished 4th and reached the CL final. Only two managers have taken us to league finishes that high or higher since the PL began. Harry Redknapp (twice) and Pochettino (4 times). It was poor compared to Pochettino's previous three seasons but incredible compared to every other manager we've had since the PL was formed and football changed.

If we're poor this season and then start the season poorly after Pochettino has been properly backed by the chairman then I think it is fair to say thanks but your time is done here Mauricio, until then I think we should stay loyal.

None of the managers had the squad we have now/last season.

Both the squads Harry had and Mopo has should be top 4.

 

[thfcsteff]

And that's fair, but the question itself was patronizing, inferring that the only reason to not back Poch was a lack of cajones.

My answer for what it worth wasn't meant to be patronizing, it was in my opinion the logical answer was opposite to the solution offered.

I apologize for any “patronisation” inferred.

It was not my intention. My question re:having the balls to back someone who has had a major role in building this club to where it is right now in terms of a re-awakened giant, remains. Again, I ask it without any hint of prejudice or patronisation. It is a simple question. Perhaps a rephrase will help me get me POV across.

Do people believe that in context of what he has achieved, that Pochettino deserves an extra layer of trust and support right now?

If you don’t, then surely it is clear you don’t trust him and don’t wish to give him the benefit of doubt based on recent history. And if that is what you believe, then so be it, right?

The last month or so of discussions have saddened me somewhat (in context of course!)...FWIW I did not take your response as “patronising” at all.

 

[thfcsteff]

We finished 4th and reached the CL final. Only two managers have taken us to league finishes that high or higher since the PL began. Harry Redknapp (twice) and Pochettino (4 times). It was poor compared to Pochettino's previous three seasons but incredible compared to every other manager we've had since the PL was formed and football changed.

If we're poor this season and then start the season poorly after Pochettino has been properly backed by the chairman then I think it is fair to say thanks but your time is done here Mauricio, until then I think we should stay loyal.

I am with you.

 

[thfcsteff]

Personally, I view this as a marriage which has been outrageously successful and has hit the first wobbly spell, with signs from previous months having come to a head.

This is the time where you either cut, run and make the same mistakes with another partner in a few seasons, or you knuckle down and give your first genuinely great relationship in 15 years+ a chance to find itself again. How much work is everyone prepared to put in? How much effort to push through the tough times and get back to the good.

Call me naive if you wish, but that it my view. I think Poch needs to learn a few things (experienced head in the dressing room, mew coach in the core, drop those fudging up and be more ruthless) but I think he is worth the work.

That Sean Dyche’s name has been mentioned here tells me a lot. Dyche is a great guy, I have spent time with him. But he should never manage this club.

 

[billyiddo]

I don’t think anyone can put a time of how long they will give him.

What if we don’t win the next 10 (as an extreme) he would have to go.




None of the managers had the squad we have now/last season.

Both the squads Harry had and Mopo has should be top 4.

I later qualified that statement in another post - relegation looking a possibility and/or a squad mutiny would be the exception.

Regarding your response to Finney Is Backs post i would agree that the squad is top 4 quality and should have finished there last season (and on paper this season also) so i would just like to point out that top 4 is where we finished last season and would ask are we really saying that should we finish outside the top 4 for 1 season that is enough to say goodbye to a long serving manager?

 

[Legohamster]

I later qualified that statement in another post - relegation looking a possibility and/or a squad mutiny would be the exception.

Regarding your response to Finney Is Backs post i would agree that the squad is top 4 quality and should have finished there last season (and on paper this season also) so i would just like to point out that top 4 is where we finished last season and would ask are we really saying that should we finish outside the top 4 for 1 season that is enough to say goodbye to a long serving manager?

Sorry didn’t see the later reply.

Yes, I think it is if there is other circumstance surrounding it - as you say mutiny/relegation form - which I’ll add style of play given we are needing to fill the stadium and managers attitude.

Given we struggle to sign players whilst in the CL, we will even more outside.

 

[thfcsteff]

Shifting the narrative slightly, I wonder whether Poch is considering playing Kane in the hole behind, say, a Moura or Son? It would allow Harry to continue creating and playing the superb passes he has been both for us and England.

Imagine...

Moura
Son Kane Alli

as a front four. The options to switch and move would be great. Asking Harry to sacrifice a bit BUT he’d get space to shoot for sure.

Thoughts?

 

[StephenH]

Kane is too good to go there permanently imo

he does drop off anyway

 

[DubaiSpur]

Shifting the narrative slightly, I wonder whether Poch is considering playing Kane in the hole behind, say, a Moura or Son? It would allow Harry to continue creating and playing the superb passes he has been both for us and England.

Imagine...

Moura
Son Kane Alli

as a front four. The options to switch and move would be great. Asking Harry to sacrifice a bit BUT he’d get space to shoot for sure.

Thoughts?

Would be a waste of his ability in the box, but the tradeoff could be that he would be a more physical, more technical sort of shadow striker - like Alli, but better given Dele's drastic decline.

However, to truly work, I don't think Son or Lucas up top is the answer. I think Son and Lucas to either side of Kane could work wonders, with a trequartista-style player further up to drop off and make space (much like Firmino) for Kane, Son and Lucas to move into.

But I'm uncertain why we would try it if we already have a Firmino-style player in Harry Kane - that's what he basically does anyway. The issue, as I see it, is that Poch is reluctant to play Moura and Son together, and the player in the hole behind Kane, whether it's Alli or Eriksen, is too bereft of confidence and form to be able to properly play that role.

 

[thfcsteff]

Would be a waste of his ability in the box, but the tradeoff could be that he would be a more physical, more technical sort of shadow striker - like Alli, but better given Dele's drastic decline.

However, to truly work, I don't think Son or Lucas up top is the answer. I think Son and Lucas to either side of Kane could work wonders, with a trequartista-style player further up to drop off and make space (much like Firmino) for Kane, Son and Lucas to move into.

But I'm uncertain why we would try it if we already have a Firmino-style player in Harry Kane - that's what he basically does anyway. The issue, as I see it, is that Poch is reluctant to play Moura and Son together, and the player in the hole behind Kane, whether it's Alli or Eriksen, is too bereft of confidence and form to be able to properly play that role.

I agree we would lose his predatory skills, but those are getting snuffed right now as it is. My thought here is definitely designed to accommodate not playing Eriksen whilst still retaining a world class creative player/passer in the side - Harry!

I think the biggest problem with Moura is that he can only play in central positions. But I do agree a three would be excellent and (in fairness to Poch) I think he has tried several ways to get it as such, just not with Son, Kane and Moura as you noted.

I still maintain Harry is the best chance-creating passer we have right now...

 

[thfcsteff]

Kane is too good to go there permanently imo

he does drop off anyway

Agreed, I was thinking as a temporary tactical shift. Doubt it will happen, but...

 

[StephenH]

Agreed, I was thinking as a temporary tactical shift. Doubt it will happen, but...

Harry drops in there quite a bit?

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree we would lose his predatory skills, but those are getting snuffed right now as it is. My thought here is definitely designed to accommodate not playing Eriksen whilst still retaining a world class creative player/passer in the side - Harry!

I think the biggest problem with Moura is that he can only play in central positions. But I do agree a three would be excellent and (in fairness to Poch) I think he has tried several ways to get it as such, just not with Son, Kane and Moura as you noted.

I still maintain Harry is the best chance-creating passer we have right now...

Fair - we need to replace Eriksen ASAP, and that's one solution. Personally, I think a more long-term one is already within our ranks -Giovani Lo Celso, who hasn't played much yet, but has the potential to become a much more aggressive, forward-thinking attacking midfielder given time.

A Statsbomb article from August pointed out that, in Ndombele, Lo Celso and Alli, we have three of the best young pressing midfielders in world football - when on form. As a core, those three can restart our long-dead pressing game if played together, and can help us get back to a high-energy, high-intensity style of forward passing and movement. We wouldn't need Eriksen as much then, because pressing relies on simple passes and turnovers, but quickly, in dangerous areas. Lo Celso, Ndombele and Alli could be our equivalent to Liverpool's pressing front three, none of whom are particularly good passers.

We can get over Eriksen with them, but it needs confidence on the part of those players (especially Dele, who has looked atrocious since his hamstring woes). And it needs time, which you and I both know is something Poch deserves, and hopefully will get.

 

[thfcsteff]

Harry drops in there quite a bit?

Right, I get that (indeed, he ran the Soton game) but it often leaves us with a hole up top as the movement is not quite as fluid when confidence is low as it is right now. Truthfully, solid shape that the players trust is
probably the best way forward...

 

[thfcsteff]

Fair - we need to replace Eriksen ASAP, and that's one solution. Personally, I think a more long-term one is already within our ranks -Giovani Lo Celso, who hasn't played much yet, but has the potential to become a much more aggressive, forward-thinking attacking midfielder given time.

A Statsbomb article from August pointed out that, in Ndombele, Lo Celso and Alli, we have three of the best young pressing midfielders in world football - when on form. As a core, those three can restart our long-dead pressing game if played together, and can help us get back to a high-energy, high-intensity style of forward passing and movement.

We can get over Eriksen with them, but it needs confidence on the part of those players (especially Dele, who has looked atrocious since his hamstring woes). And it needs time, which you and I both know is something Poch deserves, and hopefully will get.

Agree with you mate.