Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Junior19]

I wasn’t at the game on Saturday. But what do people make of Poch’s comments about the fans? I know people who were at the game and they said considering what was served up and how bad we are currently the atmosphere was good.

I was there, and I felt the atmosphere was rather subdued. It was nervous, and for long periods you could hear a pin dropped.
People joined in on songs and chants, but it all died away rather quickly again, there were no sustained singing/chanting like before. It felt very eerie at times.
And that total silence at the end of the match was just weird.

We need to get back into the groove, players and fans alike.

Even though we just managed to fork out a point in the end, I thougth there were a few encouraging things to see, most notably that the players (most of them, at least) do care. Body language and expressions clearly said that. Of course, some are more expressive in that language, but you clearly saw Son, Alli, Kane, etc, were not happy with just 1-1.

Watford were absolutely ridiculously compact, and we should know how to deal with that. I'm not sure if it would have helped if we still had Fernando Llorente, but at least he gave the defenders a different threat to handle. All our subs had impact on the game, Son immediately brought more pace and determination to the front, and Lamela too was much more direct and purposeful, and just bringing them on brought Dele much more into the game, and I thought he looked better in the tight spots in the second half than he have been for a while.


We need to rebuild confidence. We need a few feel-good experiences, and it would be a good thing to start this tuesday. It should not be hard to motivate the team towards the Liverpool-game, and it will be a completely different type of game.

 

[Mikey10]

I have read them, thanks. My opinion remains the same.

And these are the latest in what is now a long line of baffling pronouncements. Many on here excuse them, usually because they are “taken out of context” or because “Poch’s English isn’t great”. It does seem, though, that more and more of the players are taking them at face value, hence those wanting out and our pitiful level of PL performance over many months.

 

[tynesidespur]

I thought we were poor again on Saturday and only sparked into life after we finally scored.
It was good to see some karma strike on Ben Foster with a mistake after all that time wasting again.

It was interesting to watch Liverpool on Sunday who should be flying but got worse as the first half wore on and never really looked like scoring in the 2nd half until Lallana popped up at the back post late on. You would've had your house on Liverpool running riot given United's recent form but they looked disjointed and poor - with just 1 key player removed from the line-up.
It just goes to show it can happen to any team on any given day.

I was expecting us to bounce back after the Bayern game but now it looks like a bigger issue. Its clearly knocked the players' confidence very badly. I think they're taking extra touches which is slowing the tempo and they generally seem uneasy & nervous in case of making a mistake. We really need to dig out a win to get past this.
The players also look quite unfit. They're not closing down effectively, never mind pressing. And they're also missing tackles they should make - Rose in particular but Toby/Jan too.
I still think the issue stems from midfield, Watford were comfortably able to breeze past Winks - a problem that we've masked for nearly 12 months because we've had a confident strike force to bail us out. I don't feel we can persist with him at the base any longer. His lack of physicality and now the fact he's out of form when in possession means he needs to sit out for a while. N'Dombele and a defensive partner need to be paired to stiffen things up. If needs be add Sissoko in to make us obdurate and physical in midfield.
Lamela, for all his weaknesses, is a man in form and not hiding. He needs to be in the starting line-up too. I would be happy to see Dele to continue to play his way into form. We need Son in the XI.
For me, Kane is treading a thin line. He was another who was running through treacle at the weekend. He's shown some good performances this season mixed in with being completely invisible at other times. Watford was one of those. If needs be he should drop deep and get involved because he offered absolutely nothing. Time to stand-up and be counted.
I agree about the calls for Davies & Sanchez to be drafted in at this stage.

I think the vast majority of the players care deeply about the current situation. Toby, for all he is badly out of form, didn't hide on Saturday and improved as the game went on. He also needed to be consoled by Dier after Conolly skinned him for the 3rd goal at Brighton. There was no shrug of the shoulders.

These are all difficult decisions for Poch. He isn't sitting on his hands - he's making sweeping changes to line-ups and formations each game to try and find the right chemistry/dynamic. Unfortunately nothing is working. I suspect the dressing room leaks about the diamond may have had an element of truth since he seems to have listened and ditched it.

I don't think changing manager is going to bring about a change of fortune at this stage. I do think he needs to make the changes above and also integrate Sessegnon & Lo Celso very quickly to try to change the general direction/mood.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I thought we were poor again on Saturday and only sparked into life after we finally scored.
It was good to see some karma strike on Ben Foster with a mistake after all that time wasting again.

It was interesting to watch Liverpool on Sunday who should be flying but got worse as the first half wore on and never really looked like scoring in the 2nd half until Lallana popped up at the back post late on. You would've had your house on Liverpool running riot given United's recent form but they looked disjointed and poor - with just 1 key player removed from the line-up.
It just goes to show it can happen to any team on any given day.

I was expecting us to bounce back after the Bayern game but now it looks like a bigger issue. Its clearly knocked the players' confidence very badly. I think they're taking extra touches which is slowing the tempo and they generally seem uneasy & nervous in case of making a mistake. We really need to dig out a win to get past this.
The players also look quite unfit. They're not closing down effectively, never mind pressing. And they're also missing tackles they should make - Rose in particular but Toby/Jan too.
I still think the issue stems from midfield, Watford were comfortably able to breeze past Winks - a problem that we've masked for nearly 12 months because we've had a confident strike force to bail us out. I don't feel we can persist with him at the base any longer. His lack of physicality and now the fact he's out of form when in possession means he needs to sit out for a while. N'Dombele and a defensive partner need to be paired to stiffen things up. If needs be add Sissoko in to make us obdurate and physical in midfield.
Lamela, for all his weaknesses, is a man in form and not hiding. He needs to be in the starting line-up too. I would be happy to see Dele to continue to play his way into form. We need Son in the XI.
For me, Kane is treading a thin line. He was another who was running through treacle at the weekend. He's shown some good performances this season mixed in with being completely invisible at other times. Watford was one of those. If needs be he should drop deep and get involved because he offered absolutely nothing. Time to stand-up and be counted.
I agree about the calls for Davies & Sanchez to be drafted in at this stage.

I think the vast majority of the players care deeply about the current situation. Toby, for all he is badly out of form, didn't hide on Saturday and improved as the game went on. He also needed to be consoled by Dier after Conolly skinned him for the 3rd goal at Brighton. There was no shrug of the shoulders.

These are all difficult decisions for Poch. He isn't sitting on his hands - he's making sweeping changes to line-ups and formations each game to try and find the right chemistry/dynamic. Unfortunately nothing is working. I suspect the dressing room leaks about the diamond may have had an element of truth since he seems to have listened and ditched it.

I don't think changing manager is going to bring about a change of fortune at this stage. I do think he needs to make the changes above and also integrate Sessegnon & Lo Celso very quickly to try to change the general direction/mood.

Toby gave the ball away 27 times I believe... he can’t have had that many touches
That’s shocking for ANY player
He was also the one caught when docoure ran past him

winks could be the best in the world but when you have defenders who can’t run and can’t defend your fudged

 

[parklane1]

We clearly disagree on what we feel needs to happen in the net 8 months.
I think we need to ride the storm, be brave, hope we can hang in within range of the top 4 and make a New Year burst after some busy work in January. If not that, the summer.
I hope Poch gets the chance to continue the rebuild. He has, IMO, been let down by several "senior players" this season, and they need to be moved on.

..

Sorry for cutting the rest of you post ( which i also agree with) but this section is one i have 100% agreement with.

Eriksen’s meteorology is a thousand miles from Modric’s. It is why Modric is at Real Madrid with a brickload of CL winner medals under his belt, whereas Eriksen isn’t.

As most will know i am a big fan of Eriksen ( and think he has been our best player over the last few seasons) but as you say Modric is different class to him and most CM players over the years.

The "lucky to get to the CL final" narrative gets my back up.
The one true piece of luck was Inter not beating PSV in the last group game, which allowed us to go through to the knock-out stages, after a well-earned away draw against Barca.
Beyond that we still had to negotiate difficult ties against Dortmund, City and Ajax which we did. Is getting correct decisions via VAR deemed as luck? Or was it rather things falling for us as they should? Are we the first team ever to play through a competition without being the best team in every single game?

I'm not disputing that there are a lot of issues now, nor that there were issues last season. But let's not dismiss getting to the final of the biggest competition in club football as mere luck. That does a huge disservice to everyone.

Good post.

 

[Raziel]

Well I stand corrected ..

Obviously Poch is greater than any other manager, there is no way he could expect to beat the might of Watford, Brighton & Colchester with a squad like ours, and having scored 1 goal in those three games is completely understandable, after all it's not like we have a PL & WC golden boot winner backed up by multiple goal scoring attacking midfielders.

We the club and fans must worship him, must accept a close to 50% loss ratio over more than a season, if he needs another season (who cares about CL anyway), if he needs to sell 7 players and the club has to spend 200M it is the least we can do for this guy who is the most successful manager we have every had, after all, we have never made CL or been a runner up in a cup before he joined us ..

 

[glasgowspur]

Well I stand corrected ..

Obviously Poch is greater than any other manager, there is no way he could expect to beat the might of Watford, Brighton & Colchester with a squad like ours, and having scored 1 goal in those three games is completely understandable, after all it's not like we have a PL & WC golden boot winner backed up by multiple goal scoring attacking midfielders.

We the club and fans must worship him, must accept a close to 50% loss ratio over more than a season, if he needs another season (who cares about CL anyway), if he needs to sell 7 players and the club has to spend 200M it is the least we can do for this guy who is the most successful manager we have every had, after all, we have never made CL or been a runner up in a cup before he joined us ..

I love Harry but he was very fortunate to get golden boot at the world Cup, how many pens and a deflection off his heel.
He has struggled for club and Country for a while.

 

[lurker of old]

I don't think it is productive to speculate about players' motivation, and things we really know little about. What we know is that the team is not being organised in a way which stops others scoring. That is my beef, pure and simple, and to me it smacks of a manager who has lost his way. Add a loss of confidence through the squad, and things don't look promising.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Well I stand corrected ..

Obviously Poch is greater than any other manager, there is no way he could expect to beat the might of Watford, Brighton & Colchester with a squad like ours, and having scored 1 goal in those three games is completely understandable, after all it's not like we have a PL & WC golden boot winner backed up by multiple goal scoring attacking midfielders.

We the club and fans must worship him, must accept a close to 50% loss ratio over more than a season, if he needs another season (who cares about CL anyway), if he needs to sell 7 players and the club has to spend 200M it is the least we can do for this guy who is the most successful manager we have every had, after all, we have never made CL or been a runner up in a cup before he joined us ..

Again, the lack of context here is maddening. I could just do it the other way. ‘Obviously Poch is brick, and making the CL final is completely down to the players and nothing to do with coaching, preparation, tactics, motivation and building a squad that for a long time was all on the same page.’

Obviously we should beat Colchester et al. And Man United never should have drawn at home to Exeter in the Cup. These things happen. To assume that to be a good Manager, Poch has to be flawless and never have a bump in the frankly just silly. To not take into account things like not making moves for multiple windows, to getting every inch out of players that were paid less while having no home stadium, and making us drastically over perform for pretty much 5 straight years is again silly. We have barely begun the rebuild. Every other team we are competing with has pretty much cycled out the core of their squad and began to get fresh faces in at the influencial spots. He hasn’t even been able to start 2 out of his 3 summer signings. He hasn’t been able to shift out players he’s wanted to sell for ages and that are hanging on to this club for dear life because they can’t find anywhere better. And despite all of this, despite all of the trust he has earned for getting a ridiculous level of over achievement, he is being written off as not right for the next level when we are on the lowest of the cycle for this group of players and he hasn’t even had the chance to work with a refocused group that he actually wants to be here.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

So what formation do we think poch will go with tomorrow?

1. 41212
2. 4141
3. 4231
4. 352/532
5. A new ingenious invention of his like 411121

 

[parklane1]

I really believe some fans are thinking too much about what formations we are playing and focusing on that being what is wrong is all down to them.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Again, the lack of context here is maddening. I could just do it the other way. ‘Obviously Poch is brick, and making the CL final is completely down to the players and nothing to do with coaching, preparation, tactics, motivation and building a squad that for a long time was all on the same page.’

Obviously we should beat Colchester et al. And Man United never should have drawn at home to Exeter in the Cup. These things happen. To assume that to be a good Manager, Poch has to be flawless and never have a bump in the frankly just silly. To not take into account things like not making moves for multiple windows, to getting every inch out of players that were paid less while having no home stadium, and making us drastically over perform for pretty much 5 straight years is again silly. We have barely begun the rebuild. Every other team we are competing with has pretty much cycled out the core of their squad and began to get fresh faces in at the influencial spots. He hasn’t even been able to start 2 out of his 3 summer signings. He hasn’t been able to shift out players he’s wanted to sell for ages and that are hanging on to this club for dear life because they can’t find anywhere better. And despite all of this, despite all of the trust he has earned for getting a ridiculous level of over achievement, he is being written off as not right for the next level when we are on the lowest of the cycle for this group of players and he hasn’t even had the chance to work with a refocused group that he actually wants to be here.

I think some of this is fair. Tyler said yesterday that Klopp started one player that started his first game against us in 2015 and that was Origi. Surprised me I have to say.

For fun, I took a look at our starting line up that day. We still have 8 of them and a bunch from the bench. So Poch has not had it easy and has done a tremendous job in very tough circumstances.

So all other things being equal, I think Poch deserves time.

My issue is not with results alone. My issue is with how he is now leading the squad, what he is saying and how he's behaving. All of it points to a man who doesn't know how to handle the situation he is in. The players performances indicate that they feel likewise. That's what has his position careering towards untenable.

 

[harr1984]

I think some of this is fair. Tyler said yesterday that Klopp started one player that started his first game against us in 2015 and that was Origi. Surprised me I have to say.

For fun, I took a look at our starting line up that day. We still have 8 of them and a bunch from the bench. So Poch has not had it easy and has done a tremendous job in very tough circumstances.

So all other things being equal, I think Poch deserves time.

My issue is not with results alone. My issue is with how he is now leading the squad, what he is saying and how he's behaving. All of it points to a man who doesn't know how to handle the situation he is in. The players performances indicate that they feel likewise. That's what has his position careering towards untenable.

This is exactly how I see it. Poch has done great things for us, and deserves some time to make the transitions required in the squad unless things get ridiculously bad and we get involved in a relegations scrap.
However, as the leader he has made several massive mistakes and deserves the criticism he gets. Still there are a few who are defending just about all of his actions as if he is beyond criticism. He isn't some sort of GHod, he's done some great things for us but he hasn't won a single thing in his managerial career so its not unreasonable to question his methods. He's made ridiculous selection decisions on several occasions, said some ridiculous things in the media that no matter how much BoL constantly bangs on about it being selective quotes aren't things you want to hear either as a fan or as a player - and now Poch is reaping the rewards....

 

[parklane1]

This is exactly how I see it. Poch has done great things for us, and deserves some time to make the transitions required in the squad unless things get ridiculously bad and we get involved in a relegations scrap.
However, as the leader he has made several massive mistakes and deserves the criticism he gets. Still there are a few who are defending just about all of his actions as if he is beyond criticism. He isn't some sort of GHod, he's done some great things for us but he hasn't won a single thing in his managerial career so its not unreasonable to question his methods. He's made ridiculous selection decisions on several occasions, said some ridiculous things in the media that no matter how much BoL constantly bangs on about it being selective quotes aren't things you want to hear either as a fan or as a player - and now Poch is reaping the rewards....

Fair comments and you make a good point, of course he makes mistakes ( not sure i would call them massive though) but i have never known anyone who does not make mistakes . We are having a bad run and no one can deny that but some of the over reaction is not really needed ( imo). As i have said elsewhere he has done enough ( imo) over the last 4/5 years and this is the first poor period and i believe he deserves the time/patience/support for within the club and fans.

We have had good seasons for the past few years ( although i have commented that we should have won something by now) and our first poor run has got some of the fans demanding a change, now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really think it is over reacting and i hope he is given the chance to ride it out.

 

[braineclipse]

I really believe some fans are thinking too much about what formations we are playing and focusing on that being what is wrong is all down to them.

I agree in general. Though I have serious concerns about the diamond. Even though Pochettino has seemingly abandoned it for now I think the time and effort spent on trying to make that work could have been spent on other issues.

I don't mind much about other formations, though I think we mostly look better in a 4-2-3-1. Right now we're lacking fluidity, movement, understanding between players. I think changing formations as often as Pochettino is at this point is potentially damaging as players aren't able to rebuild confidence and understanding on the pitch whilst being asked to play different positions and roles with teammates moved around then as well.

I also think it might breed uncertainty, the players see Pochettino changing it around constantly. I don't think that gives them the confidence that he knows what the answers are.

He's looking terribly lost at the moment. The constant changes in formations is only part of that, but I think it's part of it.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

So what formation do we think poch will go with tomorrow?

1. 41212
2. 4141
3. 4231
4. 352/532
5. A new ingenious invention of his like 411121

All of the above, he'll change it every 5 minutes hoping to stumble into something that works

 

[parklane1]

I agree in general. Though I have serious concerns about the diamond. Even though Pochettino has seemingly abandoned it for now I think the time and effort spent on trying to make that work could have been spent on other issues.

I don't mind much about other formations, though I think we mostly look better in a 4-2-3-1. Right now we're lacking fluidity, movement, understanding between players. I think changing formations as often as Pochettino is at this point is potentially damaging as players aren't able to rebuild confidence and understanding on the pitch whilst being asked to play different positions and roles with teammates moved around then as well.

I also think it might breed uncertainty, the players see Pochettino changing it around constantly. I don't think that gives them the confidence that he knows what the answers are.

He's looking terribly lost at the moment. The constant changes in formations is only part of that, but I think it's part of it.

You are right about the constant changing of systems and i agree its not helping at the present time, but it seems that some fans are fixated on what formation we are playing and see that as our major problem when ( imo) its not. Players who reach this level have played all sorts of formations during their way through to the first team and i very much doubt we have any player who has not done so.

The formations are not the big problem ( imo), the big problem is that so many of our players are not playing at their best and because of that we are getting the results we are doing.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Fair comments and you make a good point, of course he makes mistakes ( not sure i would call them massive though) but i have never known anyone who does not make mistakes . We are having a bad run and no one can deny that but some of the over reaction is not really needed ( imo). As i have said elsewhere he has done enough ( imo) over the last 4/5 years and this is the first poor period and i believe he deserves the time/patience/support for within the club and fans.

We have had good seasons for the past few years ( although i have commented that we should have won something by now) and our first poor run has got some of the fans demanding a change, now i know Stop! Hammer time but i really think it is over reacting and i hope he is given the chance to ride it out.

I've been very critical of him but I'd just like to clarify - it's not because of the bad run in itself. It's how he's carrying on. I think he's disrespected the club and the players and he is giving me no confidence that he can turn it around or that he even wants to.

 

[parklane1]

I've been very critical of him but I'd just like to clarify - it's not because of the bad run in itself. It's how he's carrying on. I think he's disrespected the club and the players and he is giving me no confidence that he can turn it around or that he even wants to.

I accept that mate i really do and always found your posts to be well thought out and fair, i can not agree that he has disrespected the club/players though but as we keep saying Stop! Hammer time and it would be boring if we all thought the same.

As for him turning it round well no one can say for sure but i really think that after what he has done to get us here over the last few seasons he should be given the chance to do so. I remember the days when we used to change managers at the drop of a hat and it rarely worked out well for us.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But isn't that the problem?

- Why would we accept that 1 player or 3 or 5 are not motivated anymore?
- Harry Redknapp managed to get Modric's best season out of him when Levy made him stay an extra year
- I genuinely don't believe Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Rose are characters that don't put in a shift game in, game out.

I'm sorry, this should be a simple conversation, play your ass off, continue to show why someone will want to buy you and come January or Summer you get your dream move, big paycheck, whatever the fudge it is.

But what it seems is Poch (who himself was indecisive at CL) is upset that people are committed to his cause and that is potentially what is the issue, not that the players want to leave, but perhaps he can't accept it.

It comes back to Poch looking very much like a one trick pony, everyone needs to be a believer and run themselves into the ground vs. allowing very good players to at least play at a par level.

From watching Toby on Saturday I think it is clear that he isn't putting in a shift, Watford's goal showed this as clear as day. I think Vertonghen is still giving his all (and I cannot understand why he hasn't been given an extension). I think Rose is still trying, he is just not as good as the player he was a few seasons ago, perhaps because he gets less protection from his midfield compared to when we had Dembele and Wanyama (or Dier) at their peak?