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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Mate.....
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
would you sack yourself ?
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
its daft...
The amount of times people say Levy must go!!!! He has to be sacked!!!
I sit there and just chuckle.
it’s typically the brain dead types on social media who just love to moan
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
We're all going take a stance on a given situation, and discussing it to the nth degree will just as often entrench positions than change minds.
It's a fluid situation, and we are probably talking about it at a far quicker pace than things are actually happening.
All things being reasonably ok, Poch will be here until the end of the season. Of course (being fluid) disasters at pikeyville and man poo can change any landscape.
My visit to the Amex this season truly was rock bottom, the worst 'performance' by a Poch team since he's been here. Quite often a long spiral down can take quite a while to unwind...I'm hoping Poch picks up the ball again.
To be positive, we've lost 1 in 6 since Brighton. (The 1 to the PL winners elect) ....2 banging performances against 'GHod knows what' in the CL...and league games..unlucky against Everton, lucky against Sheff U and Watford meh...but at least not suffering that losing feeling. Brighton was more than a losing feeling....that's what I mean by positive.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
mate come on!!! You can’t seriously think I mean what you’re saying I mean??
indulge me. Let’s say Levy owned nothing. Let’s say he was an appointed President by Joe Lewis and was sackable. I’d still be interested in Scara’s, and anyone’s, answer to my question there.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
https://www.thefightingrooster.co.uk/2019/11/end-of-the-party/
Definitely going Saturday…that line up, the performance and the return of joy on the players faces…it’s not all over. We’ve turned the corner and now I get it…I can see Poch V2.0 taking shape right in front of my eyes. The promise of Gio, the maturing of Sanchez, Ndombele’s crazy crazy angles dissecting defences…Dele’s starting to look like he might be back. Son keeps banging them in. We’re going to be ok. It’s going to be alright. Poch’s magic hasn’t deserted him or us. I can keep on loving him. It was only that simple – bed the new players in and cast aside the diseased. Sheffield will be a tough ask…but select this team again and finally our season can start”
Nope.
The same tired, distant, half arsed, sluggish pedestrian impersonation of a Poch team. A team now devoid of identity. We don’t press, counter attack or play with any tempo intensity or apparent plan. We witnessed 4 or was it 5 formation changes in a single match. The athletic, urgent, tightly tuned aggressive and swarming team played in red and white. On our patch. The newly promoted pretenders took the virtual tinkle. And we did nothing about it. Or couldn’t.
How we got here, who is to blame or which part of which conspiracy theory you want to believe isn’t for this article. Maybe another one day.
It was only my 2nd visit this season, the Saudi Sportswashing Machine shambles the other – my south stand seat in that magnificent stadium has stood or sat empty for most games. I’ve moved house and had other priorities I tell myself but I know the truth. Deep down.
Something died in Madrid on June 1st. More than I could imagine at the time as we came so close to touching heaven. So beautifully, captivatingly and agonisingly damn close. A team that had been tightened and wound and pressed and moulded and honed to such a point – like an elastic band wound and wound and wound to the very last millionth of a millimetre before it SNAPS. Like Kirk urging Scottie on….”She cannae take any more….” And I think that’s what has happened. It’s broken. Irreparably damaged. In pieces that don’t fit together anymore.
I’ve heard rumours, gossip and stories about Poch’s behaviour after the game that night almost from the next day – “he left the team and went to Barcelona” “He didn’t visit the dressing room post match”… Whatever the truth or accuracy of these titbits something changed in his demeanour even before that Final. The bizarre “I might leave if we win” interviews remain misjudged and on reflection, damaging and divisive in my opinion
“If he isn’t with us, how can we be with him?”
The mood music seems to have gathered pace and multiplied exponentially in the intervening months bringing us to the here and now. Dig a little deeper and the jury shouldn’t be out too long:
We are 14th today having won 3 in 12.
We got murdered 2-7 in the CL. An historically bad result. At home we exited the Carling Cup at the hands of Colchester. No, I’m not making this up.
We have accrued 25 points from the last 24 league games (WTAF?)
Our form, performances and results have been largely awful this calendar year. We’ve lost 12 Premier League matches in 2019, the same amount as Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Burnley and Bournemouth and it’s 18 defeats in all competitions, more than any other side in 2019. Read it again.
There are no signs it’s changing.
On results alone, on the trajectory or trend this simply cannot be allowed to persist.
But he’s a world class manager I keep being told. Is he? Really. Based on what evidence? I first posed a crucial question over 18 months ago – “Is he a Winner?”
We’ve come close multiple times. Too many I would contend. We’ve lost cup finals, huge semi finals and the biggest final of all on his watch under his stewardship with his team. Some say we let Leicester win the easiest title in recent memory, we were in a title race til Burnley away last season perhaps….We’ve had multiple “statement” opportunities and failed all but 1, to only then fail to turn up at the final
His signings are patchy at best and largely anonymous at worst. He was gifted the greatest goal scorer of a lifetime in Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen, Lloris and the best wingback pairing in the country for 2 years. Of the 27 signings he’s made how many do you think have made a substantial sustained difference?
I’ve never been a knee jerk fan, I’ve been going too long and seen too much dross to turn on a manager on a whim.
This is no whim. This is potentially very, very damaging to the next 5 years or even longer. We are well adrift of the CL spots. We are becalmed in the ocean of irrelevance for the first time in many years. But it’s not yet fatal. We are in protect the future mode. Right now.
Thank you for Barcelona away. Thank you for Ajax and a moment to finally eclipse April 91. Thank you for Madrid – just to get there was unchartered unimaginable territory. Thank you for 17 wins and 2 draws in the final season at the Lane. Thank you for giving us so much to be proud of. You took me higher than I’ve been before.
But Harry Kane isn’t playing for a team that comes 9th for long. Possibly not next year. Which is why I force my tears back into my eyes and conclude that the manager I‘ve loved more than any other has to go. It breaks my heart to say it.
Adios y que dios los bendiga Mauricio Roberto Pochettino Trossero. And it was never a f*cking penalty.
NB: It’s highly possible, even likely that I could write an equally emphatic article of why we must keep the faith with Poch. I guess that means I’m really struggling with this situation and now having just gone through photos of Poch looking for a suitable shot for this piece I feel like a traitor. How can we say goodbye to this man? F*ck it. I don’t know what to do.
Definitely going Saturday…that line up, the performance and the return of joy on the players faces…it’s not all over. We’ve turned the corner and now I get it…I can see Poch V2.0 taking shape right in front of my eyes. The promise of Gio, the maturing of Sanchez, Ndombele’s crazy crazy angles dissecting defences…Dele’s starting to look like he might be back. Son keeps banging them in. We’re going to be ok. It’s going to be alright. Poch’s magic hasn’t deserted him or us. I can keep on loving him. It was only that simple – bed the new players in and cast aside the diseased. Sheffield will be a tough ask…but select this team again and finally our season can start”
Nope.
The same tired, distant, half arsed, sluggish pedestrian impersonation of a Poch team. A team now devoid of identity. We don’t press, counter attack or play with any tempo intensity or apparent plan. We witnessed 4 or was it 5 formation changes in a single match. The athletic, urgent, tightly tuned aggressive and swarming team played in red and white. On our patch. The newly promoted pretenders took the virtual tinkle. And we did nothing about it. Or couldn’t.
How we got here, who is to blame or which part of which conspiracy theory you want to believe isn’t for this article. Maybe another one day.
It was only my 2nd visit this season, the Saudi Sportswashing Machine shambles the other – my south stand seat in that magnificent stadium has stood or sat empty for most games. I’ve moved house and had other priorities I tell myself but I know the truth. Deep down.
Something died in Madrid on June 1st. More than I could imagine at the time as we came so close to touching heaven. So beautifully, captivatingly and agonisingly damn close. A team that had been tightened and wound and pressed and moulded and honed to such a point – like an elastic band wound and wound and wound to the very last millionth of a millimetre before it SNAPS. Like Kirk urging Scottie on….”She cannae take any more….” And I think that’s what has happened. It’s broken. Irreparably damaged. In pieces that don’t fit together anymore.
I’ve heard rumours, gossip and stories about Poch’s behaviour after the game that night almost from the next day – “he left the team and went to Barcelona” “He didn’t visit the dressing room post match”… Whatever the truth or accuracy of these titbits something changed in his demeanour even before that Final. The bizarre “I might leave if we win” interviews remain misjudged and on reflection, damaging and divisive in my opinion
“If he isn’t with us, how can we be with him?”
The mood music seems to have gathered pace and multiplied exponentially in the intervening months bringing us to the here and now. Dig a little deeper and the jury shouldn’t be out too long:
We are 14th today having won 3 in 12.
We got murdered 2-7 in the CL. An historically bad result. At home we exited the Carling Cup at the hands of Colchester. No, I’m not making this up.
We have accrued 25 points from the last 24 league games (WTAF?)
Our form, performances and results have been largely awful this calendar year. We’ve lost 12 Premier League matches in 2019, the same amount as Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Burnley and Bournemouth and it’s 18 defeats in all competitions, more than any other side in 2019. Read it again.
There are no signs it’s changing.
On results alone, on the trajectory or trend this simply cannot be allowed to persist.
But he’s a world class manager I keep being told. Is he? Really. Based on what evidence? I first posed a crucial question over 18 months ago – “Is he a Winner?”
We’ve come close multiple times. Too many I would contend. We’ve lost cup finals, huge semi finals and the biggest final of all on his watch under his stewardship with his team. Some say we let Leicester win the easiest title in recent memory, we were in a title race til Burnley away last season perhaps….We’ve had multiple “statement” opportunities and failed all but 1, to only then fail to turn up at the final
His signings are patchy at best and largely anonymous at worst. He was gifted the greatest goal scorer of a lifetime in Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen, Lloris and the best wingback pairing in the country for 2 years. Of the 27 signings he’s made how many do you think have made a substantial sustained difference?
I’ve never been a knee jerk fan, I’ve been going too long and seen too much dross to turn on a manager on a whim.
This is no whim. This is potentially very, very damaging to the next 5 years or even longer. We are well adrift of the CL spots. We are becalmed in the ocean of irrelevance for the first time in many years. But it’s not yet fatal. We are in protect the future mode. Right now.
Thank you for Barcelona away. Thank you for Ajax and a moment to finally eclipse April 91. Thank you for Madrid – just to get there was unchartered unimaginable territory. Thank you for 17 wins and 2 draws in the final season at the Lane. Thank you for giving us so much to be proud of. You took me higher than I’ve been before.
But Harry Kane isn’t playing for a team that comes 9th for long. Possibly not next year. Which is why I force my tears back into my eyes and conclude that the manager I‘ve loved more than any other has to go. It breaks my heart to say it.
Adios y que dios los bendiga Mauricio Roberto Pochettino Trossero. And it was never a f*cking penalty.
NB: It’s highly possible, even likely that I could write an equally emphatic article of why we must keep the faith with Poch. I guess that means I’m really struggling with this situation and now having just gone through photos of Poch looking for a suitable shot for this piece I feel like a traitor. How can we say goodbye to this man? F*ck it. I don’t know what to do.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
If Levy didn’t own what he does he would have been sacked a long while ago I guess, but again that would have depended on the then owner
there are some crazy people owning football clubs now
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Levy has done nothing but deliver consistent growth and success, he would be getting bonus', not the sack.
Ups and downs along the way accepted, missed opportunities accepted.
Us in 2001, vs us today, is a night and day difference - and Levy is the key to it all.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
But he has had blips along the way
And a more “stereotypical” type owner would have a sacked him
The reason he has been able to do what he has done is he has no interference, and has complete control
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Blips for a person whose job is the long game arent as big a deal as for the person required to get immediate results.
Levys the chairman, not the manager.
And despite a few blips* his performance over the long term has been nothing short of sensational.
*and by blips, I suspect most people mean "didnt buy the players the manager wanted when we might have won something", which, in the scheme of things - not even blips to be honest.
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indospurs
Young-Pyo Lee
Everyone is culpable, everyone is responsible for this mess we are in now. I think hints of it started with walker leaving, most recently trippier and his comments, for me, showed things behind the scenes aren't clear. Levy is trying to make money, players throwing strops coz they all wanted better paid contracts back in the day and not getting them. Poch caught between trying to follow levy's reasoning and financial planning, while trying to manage unhappy players, ship unused or unplayed players out... its all just a cluster f'uck
And we pay for it all ! Hey at least we have an awesome and enviable brand spanking new stadium (which seems to inspire rather than create fear for our opponents).
But we arent the only unhappy norf london club, and seeing them strop about arsene going to early, do we really want to see poch go ? Who are we likely to attract that could work with levy's style of chairmanship ? I dont have an easy answer, i just dont thonk a moaninho or allegri would come, but a young or opportunity driven manager might
I'd like to give poch till the end of the season but feeling is time is running out- i am just scared a sloppy caretaker will only ensure a continued downward slide. But what do i know !? Same like the rest of yous, just a fan on a rant.
A happy clapper who just wants peak Poch Spurs come steaming back and drive us up ... dang it we are what is it, a draw away from next round CL and 5 points from 5th ? Agonisiiinnnggg....
And we pay for it all ! Hey at least we have an awesome and enviable brand spanking new stadium (which seems to inspire rather than create fear for our opponents).
But we arent the only unhappy norf london club, and seeing them strop about arsene going to early, do we really want to see poch go ? Who are we likely to attract that could work with levy's style of chairmanship ? I dont have an easy answer, i just dont thonk a moaninho or allegri would come, but a young or opportunity driven manager might
I'd like to give poch till the end of the season but feeling is time is running out- i am just scared a sloppy caretaker will only ensure a continued downward slide. But what do i know !? Same like the rest of yous, just a fan on a rant.
A happy clapper who just wants peak Poch Spurs come steaming back and drive us up ... dang it we are what is it, a draw away from next round CL and 5 points from 5th ? Agonisiiinnnggg....
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
The Levy question is just silly and typical of the Poch "whataboutism"
Let me explain why Levy shouldn't get sacked (even if he could be)
- He is responsable for many things, not specifically on pitch results (that's the manager's job which a lot of people don't want to admit)
- Levy has to manage the long term success of the club (the manager is short term on field success)
- Levy has out performed every single one of his peers over 19 years, not just in UK, but arguably in Europe
- Any credit that BMJ, Harry, Poch get is actually a reflection on Levy because he appointed them.
In 19 years Levy has achieved
- Talking a team more accustomed to finishes outside top 10 (previous 10 years before purchase by ENIC) to a top 4 side
- Increased the clubs revenue streams and managed costs better than almost every other club in PL (percentage growth I think is only matched/bettered by United)
- Built Infrastructure that will set the club up for long term (stadium, training facilities, transport link upgrades)
- Been truly innovative in approach with things like NFL
- Even people who hate him in the industry have a lot of respect for him and how he runs the club
Ramos was a calculated gamble, was a well respected proven winner who didn't work out (although did get us a cup success), and Levy did what he was supposed to do, pull the trigger and get a replacement to correct the situation (which Harry did and exceeded expectations).
My only issue with Levy and the only question mark right now is why is he delaying with Poch (conceding 7 at home should have been the end), but I completely have the confidence because of Levy that when we replace Poch, within two seasons we will be doing better than Poch did (as was the case with BMJ, Harry, etc.)
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Possible blips. Certainly nothing that would be a sacking offence though, as he rectified these things and kept us on an upward trajectory.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Thank you for at least engaging in the question. Can not believe how literally it was taken. Of course I don’t think Levy should be sacked.
But I don’t think it’s a silly question, not in the context of people saying ‘we should be top 3, we should never be out of the top 4 again, if we don’t finish top 4 it’s a massive failure.’ We finished below expectations a few times in Levy’s reign, but long term we have clearly progressed. Absolutely, no argument there.
So why is it not possible that we may fall below expectations on the pitch one season, and then bounce back the next? Why is it that the Manager should face ultimate punishment, removed of all context around why the club may be struggling? Why should Levy get the trust of delivering over the long term but the Manager doesn’t get that same point of view? Particularly when, as you say, what happens on the pitch is a reflection of Levy. The players available. The contract situations. The signings or the players that weren’t moved on. These are not things that Poch deals with in isolation. These are circumstances he deals with as a result of Levy’s decisions. The Rose thing is a great example - the club, the ‘Board’, clearly want to sell him, but he’s refusing to go, and Poch has a situation to manage. It is not purely about ‘what is the maximum level this player has performed at?’ It is about what circumstances may be going on around the club that may affect things on the pitch.
So I would challenge two things; the idea that the job of a coach is purely ‘short term results’ and that they don’t also have a long term responsibility. Because that is purely your opinion, it is not fact. And secondly, that the Manager simply has to get on with his job in isolation from the rest of the club, as if club decisions don’t effect things on the pitch. Because they do.
Levy has clearly progressed us over the long term. I am one of Levy’s biggest fans. But I find it interesting that people are willing to ascribe a long term KPI to Levy - and say that a dip in achievement for a year is ok because Levy has had us on an upward curve long term - but not to Poch. When Poch has had us similarly on an upward curve. And when clearly decisions that are taken by the club can effect things on the pitch.
When we are seeing things said like ‘the club must keep on moving, any dip is failure’, we are excusing Levy from any of his decisions playing a part in that dip. I could quite easily say well maybe he needs to go, particularly if we are taking a dip for one year as ultimate proof of his inadequacy. But clearly that isn’t the case for him, because he is excellent. That doesn’t mean however that decisions he takes don’t affect the club, or that it isn’t possible to recover after a dip.
I would argue our dip is a collective dip, and I would argue our successes were collective successes. And I would say that we are in a unique situation with a Manager that played a massive part in that achievement and a Chairman that trusts him more than most. I think it is just as likely in 2 years we are in a better situation than the last 2 with Poch, as without him. Because it a collective thing and I think we can recover together.
Great post.