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Micky van de Ven

Muttley said:
I feel for VDV and the manager actually.

We have 3 or 4 younger CBs with great potential who need to be away from the club and getting game time. We have a 31 year old Davies who is a makeshift LCB, but not perhaps at the high level we require.

It's not only VDV. Must admit, watching Udogie last night it occurs to me that he need to be withdrawn from the front line a little and allowed to be coached and conditioned to have the bigger impact. We need a second Udogie at the club for the next phase.

Can one signing perhaps solve both these areas for Ange in January? I know we've looked at guys like Lloyd Kelly previously who can play both roles but he went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Personally, I think we'll focus on LB as the higher priority and then see if Vuskovic or Phillips can plug the other gap.
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Patrick Dorgu from Lecce was recently being linked again and he'd be a big money but long-term signing.
Would only cover Udogie though.
 
Back soon?

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Didn’t Ange say we didn’t need to buy another CB as we don’t want to block the path for Vuskovic and Phillips?
 
Yiddo said:
Didn’t Ange say we didn’t need to buy another CB as we don’t want to block the path for Vuskovic and Phillips?
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I hope that's a factor.

Another one is that it would be difficult to convince a CB that's sufficiently good to actually come here knowing that game time will be limited. And then difficult to keep them happy. Been some noise around Dragusin already, hasn't been here a year and that's with "only" him and Davies and Dragusin essentially being first in line on he bench for both CB spots.

For all of these reasons Davies is a very good option to have.
 
Lemonade Money said:
This is why we've got Dragusin, and Davies did us proud again last night.
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I don't know how many games Davies has to play at CB before he can be considered an actual CB rather than a "make-shift" one. Pretty much his whole international career had been at LCB, plus under Conte he consistently played there. Even in a back four he has played loads of games there for us, like last night and the spell alongside Royal last season. Perhaps if he got some tattoos and stopped talking about reading so many bloody books he could finally be considered a bonafide centre back.
 
Muttley said:
I feel for VDV and the manager actually.

We have 3 or 4 younger CBs with great potential who need to be away from the club and getting game time. We have a 31 year old Davies who is a makeshift LCB, but not perhaps at the high level we require.

It's not only VDV. Must admit, watching Udogie last night it occurs to me that he need to be withdrawn from the front line a little and allowed to be coached and conditioned to have the bigger impact. We need a second Udogie at the club for the next phase.

Can one signing perhaps solve both these areas for Ange in January? I know we've looked at guys like Lloyd Kelly previously who can play both roles but he went to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Personally, I think we'll focus on LB as the higher priority and then see if Vuskovic or Phillips can plug the other gap.
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Murillo at Forest?

I think we'll buy a specialist left back (Locko from Brest when he's over his achilles?) and wait for Vuskovic at CB.
 
spurspinter1 said:
I don't know how many games Davies has to play at CB before he can be considered an actual CB rather than a "make-shift" one. Pretty much his whole international career had been at LCB, plus under Conte he consistently played there. Even in a back four he has played loads of games there for us, like last night and the spell alongside Royal last season. Perhaps if he got some tattoos and stopped talking about reading so many bloody books he could finally be considered a bonafide centre back.
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Davies should finally got judged as a centre half. He is forgiven so much because he is a good egg playing out of position.

Trust me, being judged the same way as Romero, VDV and Dragusin won't work in his favour. It will be even worse the way Ange wants a high line and sprint recovery in open play. From set pieces we saw last season we can't even let Ben mark their big men as he has no chance of competing with them in the air.

Davies also does what we've been critical of Romero this season, but nobody would raise an eyelid if he did it. It would just be the normal narrative that he's playing out of position.

I've watched Davies very closely at centre half and it's a no thanks from me. I'd rather have Dorrington in there and take my chances.
 
Well as they say its all about o pinions but IMO Davies is a far better player then some think and he rarely lets us down wherever he plays. No one is saying he is a great player but he is consistant and usally does the job asked of him.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Murillo at Forest?

I think we'll buy a specialist left back (Locko from Brest when he's over his achilles?) and wait for Vuskovic at CB.
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Next season I wonder if Ashley Phillips will be kept for CB cover while Vuskovic and Dorrington are loaned out. With a view to at least one of those joining the first-team squad fold the season after (26/27).
 
Muttley said:
Davies should finally got judged as a centre half. He is forgiven so much because he is a good egg playing out of position.

Trust me, being judged the same way as Romero, VDV and Dragusin won't work in his favour. It will be even worse the way Ange wants a high line and sprint recovery in open play. From set pieces we saw last season we can't even let Ben mark their big men as he has no chance of competing with them in the air.

Davies also does what we've been critical of Romero this season, but nobody would raise an eyelid if he did it. It would just be the normal narrative that he's playing out of position.

I've watched Davies very closely at centre half and it's a no thanks from me. I'd rather have Dorrington in there and take my chances.
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Our managers over the last ten years seem to have rated Davies quite highly and appreciated his contribution. If Dorrington comes anywhere near close to what our Welshman has provided I'd be happy with that. However for now it just seems like you're slagging off a trusted and reliable member of the squad whilst bigging up a youth prospect with one senior appearance to his name, which you're entitled to do if it makes you feel warm ahd fuzzy. Let's check back in a decade and see how that one goes.

But I'm glad we now both agree he is a CB though, progress has been made via this discussion and you can't argue with progress.
 
JerusalemMan said:
Next season I wonder if Ashley Phillips will be kept for CB cover while Vuskovic and Dorrington are loaned out. With a view to at least one of those joining the first-team squad fold the season after (26/27).
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I think Vuskovic might arrive as first team ready as say Dragusin did. I've got a really good feeling that he's going to have a Dele Alli style impact.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think Vuskovic might arrive as first team ready as say Dragusin did. I've got a really good feeling that he's going to have a Dele Alli style impact.
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I'd love that, and I'm sure the assessment will be made during the close-season, but I would expect a Championship loan for at least the first half of the season would be strongly considered. If only to keep him getting regular game-time
 
spurspinter1 said:
Our managers over the last ten years seem to have rated Davies quite highly and appreciated his contribution. If Dorrington comes anywhere near close to what our Welshman has provided I'd be happy with that. However for now it just seems like you're slagging off a trusted and reliable member of the squad whilst bigging up a youth prospect with one senior appearance to his name, which you're entitled to do if it makes you feel warm ahd fuzzy. Let's check back in a decade and see how that one goes.

But I'm glad we now both agree he is a CB though, progress has been made via this discussion and you can't argue with progress.
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No, "slagging off" is your narrative, not mine. I'm just calling what I've seen with my own eyes. I don't rate him and don't think he gets rated fairly either because of the makeshift tag. He gets away with mistakes that others simply don't because he is a good egg and popular with the fans. Part of me doesn't want him in the team because he is a good guy. He can then walk at the end of the season with his head held high. He might get horribly exposed in Ange's current setup. It's much tougher than Poch's, Jose's or Conte's.

As for his tenure at Spurs, it's been very bleak at our club since the 16/17 season where he played his part in that great season. Mostly, he has been part of the mediocrity unfortunately. What is a clear pattern is that all our managers have tried to find an upgrade for Davies. Conte wanted the Lenglet, Perisic partnership. Jose wanted Reggie and Sessegnon. Like Dawson before him, Davies has mostly made the most of other players misfortunes just like Dawson did with Naybet, King, Woodgate, Gallas etc. They all got injured or old and he found himself back in the team. We didn't buy well for LB either.

As for Dorrington, I would prefer him training in the squad as centre half cover at this point. That's all. I'd obviously like to see Romero and Dragusin play well together in VDV's absence and hope we don't have to call on others. If we did, then I'd happily see Dorrington given a start. That's because I don't want a repeat of Ben's career. I like to see youngsters succeed of fail fast, not linger for 10 years being just above average. Dorrington had that bad injury and was probably heading out on loan but for it. He's now put together a bunch of games for the UI21's and it would be great for Ange to reward him.
 
Davies has been judged, approved of, retained and played by Poch, Mourinho, Conte, Numo Whassisname, various Wales managers and now Grande Ange.

The number of times he has been positively spoken about for both his play and professional presence has been an ongoing constant theme from all of them. And then there's you, Johnny Expert.

We can fully appreciate a keenness for promoting one of our promising own but at 19 he is lacking the sort of experience needed to be effective at the highest level. You can chuck on an inexperienced teen in certain forward positions, where there's time and space to recover from a gaffe, but not the backline. One mistake and the opponent is in on goal. Ange has publicly committed us to winning a trophy this season so, no space for Dorrington at present. Certainly not in league or Europa league play. Might have swung something for him in an early round cup match against some league one or two strivers, but certainly not at this stage of the League Cup.

Davies may not set pulses racing but he does offer an established level of skill and experience that we simply don't have an alternative for. That can change in January but we'll be hard pressed to find someone with more than all the attributes Davies offers who'd be as content to take the support role Davies does. Keep it real, Boychuk.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Davies has been judged, approved of, retained and played by Poch, Mourinho, Conte, Numo Whassisname, various Wales managers and now Grande Ange.

The number of times he has been positively spoken about for both his play and professional presence has been an ongoing constant theme from all of them. And then there's you, Johnny Expert.

We can fully appreciate a keenness for promoting one of our promising own but at 19 he is lacking the sort of experience needed to be effective at the highest level. You can chuck on an inexperienced teen in certain forward positions, where there's time and space to recover from a gaffe, but not the backline. One mistake and the opponent is in on goal. Ange has publicly committed us to winning a trophy this season so, no space for Dorrington at present. Certainly not in league or Europa league play. Might have swung something for him in an early round cup match against some league one or two strivers, but certainly not at this stage of the League Cup.

Davies may not set pulses racing but he does offer an established level of skill and experience that we simply don't have an alternative for. That can change in January but we'll be hard pressed to find someone with more than all the attributes Davies offers who'd be as content to take the support role Davies does. Keep it real, Boychuk.
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This, absolutely. If you're going to be a top side, you either need a squad of megastars paid an absolute brickload to not sulk or otherwise rock the boat, or you need a few solid players like Davies who can do a job.

Look at the scrutiny that Dragusin was under when he got sent off recently. One mistake at CB and it could have cost us. As a 22yo who seems strong mentally, and has already played for a top club in a decent league, he's already put it behind him. Let's not chuck any teenagers in at CB unless we're coasting, or they're the only new face in a settled defence.
 
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