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Next Spurs Manager v.2

Who do you want?

  • Louis Van Gaal

    Votes: 8 6.6%

  • Mauro Pochettino

    Votes: 9 7.4%

  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 43 35.5%

  • Roberto Martinez

    Votes: 16 13.2%

  • Carlo Ancelotti

    Votes: 10 8.3%

  • Murat Yakin

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Thomas Tuchel

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Rafa Benitez

    Votes: 29 24.0%

  • Someone Else

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
Barcelona looked decidedly average whenever Messi wasn't in the team, their passing football looked very one dimensional without him....
 
NWND said:
Everything i've seen from Sherwood tells me that he doesn't know the squad, infact he's recently openly admitted he is "no closer to knowing what his first XI is".

He constantly chops and changes and it just smacks of inexperience and indecision.

Yes, i agree our squad is big with a lot of similar players, but you know what the solution to that is? Just find a team that seems to work, give it an extended run, let it bed down and then reassess in the summer.

We smashed Saudi Sportswashing Machine with a formation that looked quite innovative but effective, but we abandoned it because we lost to Norwich the next game. These things happen, its surely worth persevering with a philosophy and formation and XI over a number of games to let it settle?

Rogers got smashed up in his first few games in charge, but he didn't panic and didn't rip up his note book because of a few bad performances or defeats.

That's what we need, a manager with the courage and conviction to see their vision through.

Even AVB didn't do this, we were all told he favoured a 4-3-3 and this particular philosophy, but because he started off with a few dodgy performances he switched to 4-4-2, then 4-2-3-1, then 4-3-1-2, then 4-4-1-1 and all over the place.

I couldn't actually tell you what AVB's preferred formation and XI was in his time at Spurs.

We need a strong coach to come in and impose a philosophy on the club and have the courage to stick with it through the initial rough transition phase.
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And a chairman who's prepared to support him through the inevitable low points that will come with that??
 
This whole Barca are rubbish without Messi argument. What about Argentina? Why do they continually underachieve with the little genius in the side?

No one can argue that Guardiola's football flummoxed the football world as they were suffocated by their incessant pressing and mesmerised by the quick passing. As Wilson says in his article there is no real wrong tactics. Tactics are there to suit the needs of a team at times. Barca had Messi. Guardiola made the best use out of him from any coach that has ever had the pleasure to work with him. They ****ed off the great Ibra to accommodate Messi in that front man role.

We are all so so quick to write off a style, a team, a manager a player, after one or a few bad games. I would hazard a guess that Guardiola's Barca at their peak would have still wiped the floor with this Real Madrid side. So is it the style of football that's wrong? Or maybe the players aren't suited to it. The goals Bayern scored v Man Utd were more of the Heynkes way of playing.

Whose to say Guardiola is simply one dimensional? Perhaps the players aren't able to execute his vision, or perhaps he failed and will learn an infinite amount from it. Perhaps he was devastated at the loss of Villanova and it effected his prematch talk and preparation? Many factors.

Guardiola's attention to detail is incredible. I don't understand how you can so easily write off his successes so quickly. It's always the same in football. We are so quick to belittle someone when they fall from grace

[video=youtube;z6YDl1dFI5g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6YDl1dFI5g[/video]
 
Very good post Diego!

At the very least Pep has shown enough to warrant people giving him more time at Bayern to implement his ideas, or perhaps to refine them to better fit that team.

Despite his supposed shortcomings they've walked the league, reached CL semi final and will be in the cup final. Yes, they were the best team in Europe last season, so it's not overachieving, but it's not like Bayern have crashed and failed under Pep like United did under Moyes. They've performed more or less to expectations.

I wonder if Rossi would be as quick to write off a Spurs manager after one season of performing more or less to expectations.
 
I didn't write AVB off after a season so probably not. I don't rate Pep that highly, sorry. I think he's been fortunate this season that Dortmund have had half the team missing all year and their route to the CL semis wasn't the hardest. Arsenal really troubled them despite missing players, Ozil missing a penalty and then Chesney getting sent off really hurt them. Then this terrible Man Utd side were going through after 150 minutes until Bayern finally found their way through, I'm not surprised they were trounced by the one good side they faced, Pep's so stubborn though that he won't adapt to different opposition, he'll just go about his business whether they're playing Real Madrid or Freiburg. It's all about appearance/perception and timing with managers, I don't see how you can begin to compare managers, no one really knows whether Pep Guardiola is a better manager than Tony Pulis.
 
Rossi22 said:
I didn't write AVB off after a season so probably not. I don't rate Pep that highly, sorry. I think he's been fortunate this season that Dortmund have had half the team missing all year and their route to the CL semis wasn't the hardest. Arsenal really troubled them despite missing players, Ozil missing a penalty and then Chesney getting sent off really hurt them. Then this terrible Man Utd side were going through after 150 minutes until Bayern finally found their way through, I'm not surprised they were trounced by the one good side they faced, Pep's so stubborn though that he won't adapt to different opposition, he'll just go about his business whether they're playing Real Madrid or Freiburg. It's all about appearance/perception and timing with managers, I don't see how you can begin to compare managers, no one really knows whether Pep Guardiola is a better manager than Tony Pulis.
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That's fair enough. You have a point, you can't really compare Pulis v Guardiola. But I'm not belittling his achievements with Barca previously. I don't think these things just happen with talented players, else Real Madrid would have been winning everything in site year in year out.
 
Rossi22 said:
**** probably a bit strong though. Bayern's play the other night was remarkably similar to our play at home under AVB actually.
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Intelligent? Tactical? Modern? Controlled through possession? Clearly the product of coaching?

Have to say I agree with you there.
 
diego_maradona said:
Chancer you said
> If you argue Pochetinno is a better choice as Spurs head coach in Summer 2014 ahead of Sherwood to complete his last 12 months, I will vehemently disagree with you.

You also said Sherwood has a better understanding of the squad and 6 months on Poch or any new manager. But isn't that somewhat short term to think he knows more about the squad now, and therefore is in a better position to take us forward next season. Whilst it might be true that it may take take the new man 6 months or more to learn more about his squad (let's call it another season of transition) we should be looking at this more long term.
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I totally agree, which is why picking a manager in between the ideal candidate and Sherwood is such a mistake.

Ideal candidate = multi-season project we can all buy into. Money, faith, hope, trust. Balls to the wall support.

Sherwood = 12 month contact with the hope it'll go well, but limited damage if it doesn't (in terms of time wasted, money spent, squad upheaval, can be sacked if better comes along, we know there'll be no boardroom conflict because he's already worked with the board, no learning curve over summer etc.)

Guy in the middle = Erm, is this guy doing the multi-season project, balls-to-the-wall thing? Or...is he a glorified caretaker? Are we going to be kicking ourselves in 12 months when Klopp gets sacked and this guy still has 3 years left on his contract? Do we give him money and power over shaping the squad for perhaps years to come? Do we invest hope and emotion in him? Don't they always say players drop off when they know a manager is on the way out? Won't this guy always be teetering on that edge?


If you argue Pochettino is a better coach than Sherwood and the potential rewards are greater long term, then it should surely be a no brainer?
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Poch being a better coach ≠ Better rewards long term.

Eg: he doesn't work out, he's sold Lamela, Carroll and Bentaleb, he's brought in X, Y, Z players on big money who don't work out, he's brought in a new army of assistants and drilled the players in a specific way that a new coach has to unteach them...Would that not do more long term harm than any amount of short-term benefit he might have brought? That level of risk requires a commensurate level of reward. "He might get us CL" doesn't cut it.

I like Poch a lot, but excuse me if I'm not nuts about handing the next several years of Spurs future to a 42 year old with 1 full season in the PL and an extremely hard to judge 2 seasons at Espanyol at the end of which he was sacked. I like the guy, I really do, but let's just cool the boots a bit.

........

Bar Poch, there's isn't a single other candidate I'm interested in (other than the obvious LvG/FdB type lads) so this debate for me is solely about Poch. Anyone mentions Mancini or Spaletti to me and the argument above is just multiplied by 100.
 
Football is changing. for while it was dominated by athletic teams, then it was dominated by passing teams now it seams the best teams have a bit of both e.g Bayern last year and Ath Madrid this year.

No longer can you just tiki taka your way to victory as high pressing teams will snuff you out but you can't also bulldoze your way through victory as smarter passing teams will overcome you.

I worry that FDB although is very progressive is still quite insistent on possession football which doesn't work anymore. Football these days is quite advanced and teams are quite well prepared every game. The only way (imo) to dominate games is to exploit spaces/gaps/mistakes in the split seconds they present themselves with with quick passing and movement/rotation.

Liverpool have done this quite well, I fear FDB who likes to move the ball from side to side will be on for a shock when he tries that in the premier league. Defenses are too well drilled for slow build up play/possession football to be effective these days.

FYI - I've studied PEP a lot and recent Bayern performances are NOT the Pep way. The Pep way is a super speeded tiki taka with lots of player rotation - but lately for whatever reason (fatigue, Pep trying new things) Bayern look like Spurs under AVB. He'll fix it next year, I'm sure he's learned his lesson
 
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I'm surprised Kluivert has turned himself into leadership/coaching material. He managed the end of his own career rather hideously, and showed a lot of immaturity over the years. I guess maybe he's grown up and got his sh1t together. In which case, fair play and good luck to the guy, I just wouldn't have had him down as the type.

United I suspect must have gotten word through back channels that Ancelotti isn't moving.
 
Rossi22 said:
Not a poor coach but I think he's overrated, stubborn and one dimensional. Sure he deserves some credit for what he did at Barca but I'd attribute more of that credit to the players(one Lionel Messi in particular). Think it was just a case of being there at the right time for Pep and there was no need for this Bayern to be a "work in progress", any manager without such an ego would've just carried on Jupp Heynckes' work rather than trying to impress their own way of playing on the squad. When you've seen Bayern destroy Barca the year before, it seems quite strange to me that you'd then try and get Bayern to play like Barca.
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This is probably his least successful season and they're winning the league and in the CL semi final.

Hasn't really been a need before to aim for much more than that one dimension that has worked so well.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
And a chairman who's prepared to support him through the inevitable low points that will come with that??
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A very very fair point. AVB wanted out as much as we wanted shot by the end, but we do have to look at way he got. He got a lot, but was it what he wanted support-wise or what Levy was prepared to give him? Of course, one could argue that the whole idea of the DOF system is to build a squad which can work with any capable manager/coach, which in effect gives Baldini a lot of power...but I agree, Levy has to do the right thing one of these days with regards to hanging in there.
 
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