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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
I'm sure it is, and I've heard multiple reports of people saying this exact thing is the reason they voted for him. But they are about to find out soon that eggs will be the least of their worries (and eggs will be more expensive too!). The US economy was doing pretty well by most measures - inflation low, job numbers good, stock market riding high, GDP growth was good - but it is about to get utterly fudged up again as this is what Republicans do. Take a good economy and destroy it by giving rich pricks all the money, and then later the dems come in a clean up the mess. I'm not sure the 2nd part will happen this time though. The dems won't get in again as free elections are now a thing of the past over there.
It is an often repeated point on here that those controlling the message have the real power and those controlling the message are those same rich pricks.
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I know that and you know that, but a lot of people don't, and this is where I think the Democrats failed spectacularly.
They allowed the narrative about them to be focused on stuff that is not as important as the economics of life.

As I said in another post, if anyone really thinks that any politician or political figure is really interested in the common man they deserve all they get.
 
thfcsteff said:
Perhaps the more interesting debate question is whether lying matters in a free society?
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Such a great question and thought provoking mate

IMO to some it matters, to others they brush it off like its just another thing. Two debates on here recently where the blame for people lying is swiftly moved to others shoulders "yeh Farage lied but they made him lie" or something to that line anyway.

You see it so much, people seemingly don't care about stuff that others think make up a pretty important part of society. Trump being elected tells me everything about the standard, bloke raped someone and people still want to stand shoulder to shoulder with him because they hate the same people. What an endorsement for the human race that is
 
glasgowspur said:
I know that and you know that, but a lot of people don't, and this is where I think the Democrats failed spectacularly.
They allowed the narrative about them to be focused on stuff that is not as important as the economics of life.

As I said in another post, if anyone really thinks that any politician or political figure is really interested in the common man they deserve all they get.
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Up until she lost the Harris campaign was being given huge credit for being run well and having a bunch of excellent policies that would have given a lot of money to the middle class. Trump had Project 2025 as his policy document which does the opposite. So the analysis that she was not focusing on important domestic money issues is a flawed one, and only gained traction as it has been repeated ad infinitum on Fox and what not, and then of course on MSM as they are truly awful.

To me where she went wrong was that she tacked too far right in an effort to win GOP voters. This has always been a losing strategy for dems and always will be. She gained no republican votes by say bringing Cheney and other repubs into her ranks and only alienated the progressives in her base as a result. Dems do better when they move left is a lesson they repeatedly fail to learn.
 
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Rorschach said:
Up until she lost the Harris campaign was being given huge credit for being run well and having a bunch of excellent policies that would have given a lot of money to the middle class. Trump had Project 2025 as his policy document which does the opposite. So the analysis that she was not focusing on important domestic money issues is a flawed one, and only gained traction as it has been repeated ad infinitum on Fox and what not, and then of course on MSM as they are truly awful.

To me where she went wrong was she tacked too far right in an effort to win GOP voters. This has always been a losing strategy for dems and always will be. She gained no republican votes by say bringing Cheney and other repubs into her ranks and only alienated the progressives in her base as a result. Dems do better when the move left is a lesson they repeatedly fail to learn.
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May well be so, but who is giving them the credit, but way more importantly who is reading that credit.
From afar with only half an eye on it of course, because I really don't trust any media, was that message getting through to John q public.
The average man in the street doesn't delve into politics, he sees the headlines and goes on his gut.
Trump and his side got out a basic simple message.
The fact it's bs doesn't matter, most of them will have forgotten it by this time next year.

Edit
Badly worded, not disparaging the sources of the credit, but if it's in publications few read what is the point, and the vast majority don't read political sources.
 
glasgowspur said:
May well be so, but who is giving them the credit, but way more importantly who is reading that credit.
From afar with only half an eye on it of course, because I really don't trust any media, was that message getting through to John q public.
The average man in the street doesn't delve into politics, he sees the headlines and goes on his gut.
Trump and his side got out a basic simple message.
The fact it's bs doesn't matter, most of them will have forgotten it by this time next year.

Edit
Badly worded, not disparaging the sources of the credit, but if it's in publications few read what is the point, and the vast majority don't read political sources.
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Therein is the problem. Trump has a rightwing media machine that all goosestep together. The left have nothing comparable. It is a problem Biden faced as well - getting no credit for the good work he did.
 
thfcsteff said:
Don't be naive. As I believe you said yourself somewhere, he has been pretty open about his intentions. Have you any idea how he had set up potential interference at polling stations around the country? How he had plans and people in place to dispute if it was against him? How he had lawsuits ready to file to disrupt the process? And that is with what is left of the system in place! Even if he goes the 'no more term limits' route, he still has tools and aperatus in place (including the judicial system) to essentially dictate the process.




I do not need this explained to me thanks. I have been fully aware for some time.




Again, not in any news to me, albeit this process will take a good deal longer and anyone who thinks he'll just let California dance off into independence is crazy (too much financial muscle to lose).




You should care. Greatly. As an ecologist alone, his appointment is going to have profound ramifications for the planet. Take it wider, and the ramifications all round will most certainly impact the world.
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You asked me what i think.

I told you.

So i'm not fussed what you did or don't know already. And how was I supposed to know anyway?
 
glasgowspur said:
It's a difficult hurdle to get over, they need a serious rethink on how they get their message across.
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I was listening to the Two Matts podcast yesterday (I'd recommend it as a regular good listen). Rather than engage in a lot of hand-wringing, they were analysing the way forward, and were focusing on exactly what you say...as well as tearing apart the approach of that absolute t wat Owen Jones from The Guardian.
 
Mikey10 said:
I was listening to the Two Matts podcast yesterday (I'd recommend it as a regular good listen). Rather than engage in a lot of hand-wringing, they were analysing the way forward, and were focusing on exactly what you say...as well as tearing apart the approach of that absolute t wat Owen Jones from The Guardian.
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I don't get on with podcasts, other than GG, but I might dig that out.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Such a great question and thought provoking mate

IMO to some it matters, to others they brush it off like its just another thing. Two debates on here recently where the blame for people lying is swiftly moved to others shoulders "yeh Farage lied but they made him lie" or something to that line anyway.

You see it so much, people seemingly don't care about stuff that others think make up a pretty important part of society. Trump being elected tells me everything about the standard, bloke raped someone and people still want to stand shoulder to shoulder with him because they hate the same people. What an endorsement for the human race that is
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His charge sheet is long.....but that apparently doesn't matter. Go figure.

Some absolutely share his views but many will also think he's the one that will make them feel not so poor. Money (and having a lack of) is a massive motivator. But if they think he is the guy, they've backed the wrong horse.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
His charge sheet is long.....but that apparently doesn't matter. Go figure.

Some absolutely share his views but many will also think he's the one that will make them feel not so poor. Money (and having a lack of) is a massive motivator. But if they think he is the guy, they've backed the wrong horse.
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There is a trend of weird levels of misplaced trust IMO, its the same for Musk, people see a rich successful guy and think he is to be trusted because cleverly he has adapted the rhetoric that plays into peoples fears, but if these people believe he is to be trusted and did not want to control the narrative for his own gain, then more fool them.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Are you a a bit simple or something? Where in that piece about (wow), a council by election win for Reform, is there a quote from Keir Starmer saying "most British people are far right. You're an idiot!
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🤣🤣🤣🤣

You just don't get it do you. And you're trying to make the claim that i think he said those specific words.

It doesn't work like that.

Starmer labelled protests as far right too, not just the rioters. South Port protests were about knife crime plenty of footage of Starmer getting called out for knife crime when laying the reefs. So anyone who supported these protests against knife crime are far right too.

As for the later riots and protests regarding immigration etc. Not all the rioters were right wing thugs either. But they were rightfully arrested

If you throw far right around like confetti at a wedding, then you are going to tarnish a lot of people.

What are your thoughts on Dawn Butler retweening a post that called Kemi Badenock a white supremisist in blackface and also referring her to a coconut?

Not seen any of lefties call her out for her racist comments..
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Are you a a bit simple or something? Where in that piece about (wow), a council by election win for Reform, is there a quote from Keir Starmer saying "most British people are far right. You're an idiot!
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Exactly, he rightly labelled the riots right wing because people went up to Southport on a lie and attacked mosques, they also looted shops and some asian bloke had to lock himself in his stockroom. If people can't accept thats right wing actions then they are either lying to themselves or part of the problem.
 
Grays_1890 said:
There is a trend of weird levels of misplaced trust IMO, its the same for Musk, people see a rich successful guy and think he is to be trusted because cleverly he has adapted the rhetoric that plays into peoples fears, but if these people believe he is to be trusted and did not want to control the narrative for his own gain, then more fool them.
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Musk is interesting because there is now a lot of hate towards from people who thought he was the saviour.
His following has almost flipped.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Exactly, he rightly labelled the riots right wing because people went up to Southport on a lie and attacked mosques, they also looted shops and some asian bloke had to lock himself in his stockroom. If people can't accept thats right wing actions then they are either lying to themselves or part of the problem.
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He also labelled the protests, not just the riots.

And the protests were about knife crime, children's safely.
 
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