Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[thfcsteff]

People being negative complaining about this government being negative and complaining

The way I see it, this is the first serious government since Cameron. We’ve had a competence hiatus since Brexit. Plus Covid. And people think everything should be sorted in 6 months?

It's just tit-for-tatting without context. Sadly it appears this is where we are in history...

 

[parklane1]

It's just tit-for-tatting without context. Sadly it appears this is where we are in history...

Might have something to do with both the major partys being brick and full of arseholes.

 

[thfcsteff]

They didht do fudge all about it, they set up the UK infrastructure bank in 2021, which Labour have subsequently rebranded as the national wealth fund in order to meet their manifesto pledge to establish a national wealth fund by renaming the one that already existed following the election in a classic case of "stealing your rivals best ideas and repackaging them as your own" which is rife in all political areas

Neither Johnson or Sunak actually achieved much with the UK infrastructure bank, partially due (I'm sure) to covid related issues, partially because they simply did not invest much of the funds which were apportioned for it, and other issues relatibng to execution. Look, finance is clearly your arera of expertise (I most certainly would not claim to be anywhere close to that), however in this case surely it's fairer to say that Labour are simply looking to make an idea's principle root actually work rather than simply re-appropriating it for political gain? You do clearly say 'is rife in all political areas' and I'd both agree and extend tht (sadly) to life in general, especially the arts (my area of expertise) where the recognition of intellectual propery rights continues to be a giant minefield of abuse.

 

[Kompakted]

People being negative complaining about this government being negative and complaining

The way I see it, this is the first serious government since Cameron. We’ve had a competence hiatus since Brexit. Plus Covid. And people think everything should be sorted in 6 months?

Are they competent? They're serious alright. But the poor comms, lurching from one PR disaster to another, the whiff of "I'll take what I can get out of this gig" with all the Lord Ali stuff, the donations and we've already had the first ministerial resignation and we are a few months in. Dropping in last minute unannounced policies such as the employers NI rise...

If you took Boris Johnson's government, removed all the personality, humour and one-liners and were just left with the incompetent u-turns, poor communications, jobs for the boys and back of a fag packet policy decisions, you'd have this government.

 

[Kompakted]

Neither Johnson or Sunak actually achieved much with the UK infrastructure bank, partially due (I'm sure) to covid related issues, partially because they simply did not invest much of the funds which were apportioned for it, and other issues relatibng to execution. Look, finance is clearly your arera of expertise (I most certainly would not claim to be anywhere close to that), however in this case surely it's fairer to say that Labour are simply looking to make an idea's principle root actually work rather than simply re-appropriating it for political gain? You do clearly say 'is rife in all political areas' and I'd both agree and extend tht (sadly) to life in general, especially the arts (my area of expertise) where the recognition of intellectual propery rights continues to be a giant minefield of abuse.

I don't know how successful it was to be honest, but sovereign wealth funds take time. What they're supposed to do is take seed funding from the government and inest it in both UK and foreign global assets and build the fund up from there to enable the really big infrastructure investments. At the moment the case studies are a few hundred million. You'd hope that given time they'll be funding >billion pound projects

 

[scaramanga]

This goes back to a key disagreement we appear to have. I believe private ownership should've been investing in upgrades a long time ago. It is clear they didn't. Central government should, indeed, have been making sure such responsibilities were met, matched and aided. That they didn't quite possibly gets us into other areas of discussion which I doubt would do much for your blood pressure!

Those companies are not responsible for the infrastructure growth. If the govt wants them to be then they'll need significantly greater margins to create the funds for investment and greater profits to balance the extra risk.

Do you fancy being the politician that states publicly that water companies need more profits?

Unfortunately it's the responsibility of the public purse to sort these issues out. The only sensible way to do that is to include it (along with the cost of extra housing, health facilities, schools, etc) into the calculation for balancing population increase (immigration).

The standard calculation that assumes no need for infrastructure growth puts a tax neutral citizen at around £45k earnings. That's obviously going to increase with dependents. That number would increase with the infrastructure costs included. So we should only be paying in or out of work benefits (including healthcare etc) to immigrants earning around £50 or more. Much more with dependents.

You'd find that would solve the problem quite quickly.

 

[scaramanga]

People being negative complaining about this government being negative and complaining

The way I see it, this is the first serious government since Cameron. We’ve had a competence hiatus since Brexit. Plus Covid. And people think everything should be sorted in 6 months?

Do you genuinely see the actions of our Chancellor as competent or did you just want to take a dig at the Conservatives?

 

[scaramanga]

I don't know how successful it was to be honest, but sovereign wealth funds take time. What they're supposed to do is take seed funding from the government and inest it in both UK and foreign global assets and build the fund up from there to enable the really big infrastructure investments. At the moment the case studies are a few hundred million. You'd hope that given time they'll be funding >billion pound projects

Who is in charge of picking the winners?

Is there any reason to believe they're anywhere near as good as their private sector equivalents?

 

[Kompakted]

Who is in charge of picking the winners?

Is there any reason to believe they're anywhere near as good as their private sector equivalents?

I don't know. I haven't any experience with them. I've worked with the Singapore sovereign wealth fund (GIC) and they were very commercial.

From the case studies on their website seems like the main use is to get some seed funding into a project so that it can be marketed as "government backed" and then use that to lure private equity and venture capital in....

 

[scaramanga]

I don't know. I haven't any experience with them. I've worked with the Singapore sovereign wealth fund (GIC) and they were very commercial.

From the case studies on their website seems like the main use is to get some seed funding into a project so that it can be marketed as "government backed" and then use that to lure private equity and venture capital in....

So a bit like buying penny stocks and then convincing the world to buy in on your YouTube channel?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Does it make any difference that Reform was set up as a private company? Genuine question, no idea whether that would be a loophole in some way.

No. And the electoral commission have already investigated them over this issue, and made them return a donation that they couldn't account for: https://www.electoralcommission.org...party-campaigners-accepting-payments-online-0

 

[Gutter Boy]

France proving a good example of why presidents should be relegated to being largely ceremonial, and why they need to switch to FPTP.

 

[SkipRat]

Tories talked about a sovereign wealth fund, backing start ups out of university that sort of thing.

As far as I'm aware they did fcuk all about it.

Levelling up was a good idea too.

It was at least something... Did naff all about that too...

Action speak louder than words.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Levelling up was a good idea too.

It wasn't because it was run as a bit of a casual lottery, rigged towards Tory voting areas. Internal redistribution of wealth and jobs is a good idea, but it needs to be done strategically.

 

[SkipRat]

Count me in. I could get into the whole bleed the plebs dry racket.

It was something that Corbyn promoted. Doesn't do international traading, jsut literally invest in local business.

Akin to the one in N Dakota, IIRC. Was that only bank in America to turn a profit in 2008, during the bank crash. Did no internation trading, just invested in local business and made $3 billion in profits that year... IIRC.

Been 14/15 years since I watched the documentary.

 

[SkipRat]

Two things ring really true there:
- The "f**k you" vote.
- Trying to create or serve the electorate you want rather than deal with the one you have.

As he alludes to in that very article, no single election campaign and result encapsulated this more than the Brexit referendum.

- The "f**k you" vote grew everytime Cameron, or Carney or some economist was wheeled out to say "poor little pathetic Britain can't survive outside the EU now do what's good for you, you little oiks". I think there came a point in the campaign where they managed to wheel in Barack Obama to say that the US was only interested in doing a trade deal with the EU (actually, they've never really been interested in doing a trade deal with the EU, or pretty much anyone actually). I can't imagine the desperation you would have to be in to invite a foreign leader to give a televised intervention on a constitutional issue and think that was going to go down well, but anyway, there you go. The below excellent YouTube video sums up the feeling....
- The "I'm going to campaign to the electorate i want, rather than the electorate I have". I knew the Remain campaign was f**red when one of their centre pieces seemed to be "the EU gives you the right to live, work and love across 28 different countries" as though they were dealing with a romantic electorate of Belinda Renfrew-Urquharts, who aced two baccalaurettes in foreign languages, and went off to study in Paris.....rather than Harper Smiths,.who get a nose bleed when they have to get the bus to the next town ("because they're all weirdos") and who would only contemplate using a passport to enable throwing up all over a street in a Spanish resort while telling all the locals to f**k off and speak English

Seen that video, before....

Absolutely brilliant, and so on point...

It's brilliant.

A new one, slightly updated.

 

[Kompakted]

It wasn't because it was run as a bit of a casual lottery, rigged towards Tory voting areas. Internal redistribution of wealth and jobs is a good idea, but it needs to be done strategically.

They created a new Treasury office in Darlington, as a northern strategic decision making hub which was probably one of the biggest strategic moves on levelling up achieved before the wheels came off the Johnson government. I'd hardly call that a casual lottery rigged towards tory voting areas.....

 

[glasgowspur]

I've never dared look at the comments and I am on the other side of the fence to him regarding indy.
But his stuff about the SNP corruption and the weird Scot-political fixation with gender issues has been coruscating.

I'm very definitely against indy and I only started to read it to "judge the room" as it were.
The press, the polls, lots of foreigners and even more celeb Scots that don't live here and have no intention of ever living here were telling us all that Scotland wanted indy but just was not my experience.
If I'm honest I'd said they'd be lucky to get 1 in 3 votes.

 

[thfcsteff]

Those companies are not responsible for the infrastructure growth. If the govt wants them to be then they'll need significantly greater margins to create the funds for investment and greater profits to balance the extra risk.

Do you fancy being the politician that states publicly that water companies need more profits?

Unfortunately it's the responsibility of the public purse to sort these issues out. The only sensible way to do that is to include it (along with the cost of extra housing, health facilities, schools, etc) into the calculation for balancing population increase (immigration).

The standard calculation that assumes no need for infrastructure growth puts a tax neutral citizen at around £45k earnings. That's obviously going to increase with dependents. That number would increase with the infrastructure costs included. So we should only be paying in or out of work benefits (including healthcare etc) to immigrants earning around £50 or more. Much more with dependents.

You'd find that would solve the problem quite quickly.

I can't argue with what you've said because you believe it, and you believe the philosophy behind it to be right.

I do not.

Personally, I believe it is appropriate that when someone purchases a utility, they invest at least some of their profits/own money into the company in order to make sure it maintains a level of service which serves the public with the best possible efficiency. I know I know, how 'commie' of me eh?! Instead, we have the use of accumulated debt to finance anything of note, while there have been significant dividend payouts to shareholders. I personally believe there is some shared responsibility here, which clearly has not been adhered to. I should note I am referring to Thames Water here.

I find it baffling that you are one of those who appears to feel that immigration control is the one-stop panacea to our social issues with regards to housing, health and education. The truth is there are multiple factors which need adjustment. We live in very aggressive times, both socially and systemically. The middle does not currently exist.

 

[Kompakted]

France proving a good example of why presidents should be relegated to being largely ceremonial, and why they need to switch to FPTP.

Macron sh** the bed because FN won the European elections and has now dug himself a huge hole.. Seem to remember Farage/UKIP winning every Euro election we used to have and nobody batted an eyelid....he should have just ignored it.