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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

thfcsteff said:
It was known within minutes of the footage being seen for anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain. Next you'll be telling me that Elijah McClain wasn't an act of racism (one of the worst cases I have ever heard of).
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That’s the point. I agree it was obvious and it’s also obvious with Novak.
 
thfcsteff said:
On a side note, another 'evil' of the action of the murderer is that he falsely claimed racism. That is most unhelpful for everyone, and is especially poor.
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Exactly, this is a key point.

Police work is made harder daily because of levels of criminality and actions such as the false claim after the event, its hard to know and speculate but its not beyond the realms of possibility that the lie fed into the actions of the Police.
 
thfcsteff said:
At least we have clarified the opinions here. We agree to disagree.
On a side note, another 'evil' of the action of the murderer is that he falsely claimed racism. That is most unhelpful for everyone, and is especially poor.
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I read that the judge added time to his sentence as it put the Sikh community in danger.
 
robp135 said:
I can agree with everything you said here and still beleive that the treatment of Henry Nowak in his final moments by police was due him being white and his murderer being non white. I wouldn’t even have that much of an issue with the idea that overall these DEI/Anti Racism policy’s are a net positive. But I do not for one second beleive that had both had been the same race, he would had been treated that way and that’s down to the pressure that’s placed on the officers.
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You don't know this. There's no data that this is a trend amongst officers. It's just what social media is telling you.
 
thfcsteff said:
My mother was born in Dublin. We got it all ways. Mixed-race hippie couple? Try to imagine.

LOL, I am not 'having to use my Dad as a reason' for anything. I am simply telling you what it was like. And (frankly) pointing out the massive flaws in this 'pyramid' thing.

Sadly, race has always been an issue. You would not know. How could you? I would not really know either because for the most part I look maybe mediterranean (aside from a couple of very astute young racists over time who have shouted 'sand-n' at me - FWIW I think it's funny and stupid).

The single biggest factor (IMO anyway) in racism being less publicly present as the 2000s went on, is because of technology and social media. The things people could get away with no longer flew when posted or shared. As we sadly see today, there is always a strong current of underground prejudice ready to drag people into.

Your assertion that initiatives introduced in 2020 due to the Floyd murder resulted in Nowak's murder is one I wholly, wholly disagree with. It was, IMO, a bad mistake and error of judgement on their part. It was also due to a nasty, f'd up individual twisting the narrative.

Finally, and I've said this before in other posts...I have sympathy for a lot of people who have been left wondering why their lives have not improved under various governments who said they would. All people. White people too. White poverty is very obviously real, and it is wrong, ignorant and foolish of anyone to believe that all working class/poor white people harbor racist feelings. Indeed, MOST are decent human beings just trying to make their way with whatever resources they have. Sadly, conflation merchants, aggro trolls and financial aggregators have managed to isolate several historical tropes and monetise them via 'patriotism' and in some cases, direct prejudice. It means that there are no balanced discussions or perspectives on anything anymore, because there's big money in the polarization game. It makes me sad to see, like the anger in all communities. In that sense I ally with @monkeybarry in the belief that we have to understand the true roots of grievance in the Tommy Robinson supporters clubs, understand where they're being bum-steered, and welcome both conversation and education to show them that their enemy is not someone in a boat or from another country. Sadly, we also have to accept that there are a minority who simply do not believe in the mixture of cultures or races (i.e. racists) albeit I think that is a product of fear and ignorance (as I believe all racism is in the end). We also do have to accept that proper discussions on immigration and over-population have to be had, and actions do have to be taken to maintain legality of passage, however polarisation contributes heavily to preventing that conversation from happening.


I suspect we will have to agree to disagree, but as ever, I appreciate the fact we can have this discussion. These exchanges are the only way anything moves forward (in the sense that I wish/hope more people have them as opposed to going into 'corners' and shouting at each other).
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Irish-Persian. You won the genetic lottery there.
 
robp135 said:
That’s the point. I agree it was obvious and it’s also obvious with Novak.
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In your opinion. Which I believe has been guided by personal views and conflation perpetrated by agitators. I am happy to agree to disagree and move on, but every time you try to make it a 'fact' in the Novak case, I'll respond with my view.
 
robp135 said:
I can agree with everything you said here and still beleive that the treatment of Henry Nowak in his final moments by police was due him being white and his murderer being non white. I wouldn’t even have that much of an issue with the idea that overall these DEI/Anti Racism policy’s are a net positive. But I do not for one second beleive that had both had been the same race, he would had been treated that way and that’s down to the pressure that’s placed on the officers.
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I can only speculate obviously, but I would say they made their assumption based on the fact they might well have encountered drunks racially abusing people before. That is NOT an excuse BTW; not at all. It is a huge and rather disgraceful error on their part (I'm sure many police would agree with me, including those who have served/served here as I do believe the majority of the force do the very best they can and operate under increasingly tough conditions). The point I am making here is that I think their misjudgment/assumption was not based on some training initiative where guilt is implied due to colour/non-colour. I think they simply fudged this up very badly.
 
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