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Racism in football

Neymar said:
yes but when the interviewer rephrases his thoughts, he reaffirms that the interviewer phrases his thoughts much better. smertin's english vocabulary is clearly very limited. smertin obviously wants the interviewers interpretation of his thoughts to take precedence over how he himself has phrased his thoughts. in this case, we should quite clearly be using the rephrased words as smertin's own.
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That is quite a way interview though and the conversation has moved on. He does not retract the excuses and denials that he makes for the overt racism in Russian football.
 
Neymar said:
smertin doesnt even realise how controversial his own words would sound to an english speaking audience. similar to the kouma incident last week.

if smertin knew, he obviously wouldnt have done the interview imo. the problem is, when the english audience slate him, unneccesary divisions are created. and it doesnt help at all in terms of resolving the issue of racism and other forms of discrimination. when at the end of the day, both ourselves and smertin probably want the same thing in terms of eliminating racism
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How do you know what he thinks? His comments sound quite considered to me and he was here long enough to know how this issue is seen here.
 
Neymar said:
disagree. he is well within his rights to discuss a topic such as this. he was trying to be very careful with his words, and made it clear that he wasnt able to illustrate his thoughts well. when the interviewer re-interpretted smertins words a few times, to which smertin said that the interviewer's interpretation was "much better", smertin's views do not sound anywhere near as controversial as the bbc have made out. the bbc should be embarrased with their standards of journalism in this case.
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Hang on. You first say that we cannot make judgments on him based on the interview. I say that is gonads, because if he doesn't want to be judged on his comments, don't make them! If you're a public figure, then you must realise that the media will listen. Was the interviewer not a BBC interviewer?

Neymar said:
smertin is a public figure (relatively), and people like him need to speak out so society as a whole can progress together on controversial topics such as racism.
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Yes they should, but he's just shown himself to not understand the issue, in which case he should shut the fudge up. You do not talk about sensitive issues if you don't comprehend them. He's basically saying that the giving of bananas to black players was nothing but a joke. Exactly why would it be a joke? "Ha ha, you resemble a monkey?" "Ha ha, this is what racists do to you isn't it funny?" "Ha ha I thought you may be hungry?"

If Smertin thinks that it is a joke and no offence was meant by the act, then he clearly is ignorant to the issue. Racism is wrong and he should know better. End of.

Neymar said:
we have the internet too. but for some reason we dont oppose all forms of abuse/discrimination with the same intensity. moral compasses are very complex things, and i think sometimes we (in england) are very ethnocentric in these matters. we seem to think we have a monopoly on ethics and morals.
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Has no bearing on the fact racism is wrong. Corruption is wrong too. Invading other countries is wrong as well. We're talking about racism and in this day and age it is unacceptable for any country that is hoping to host a worldwide event to be showing this. No one is saying we have a monopoly on ethics and morals, but if something is wrong, it is wrong!


Neymar said:
i accept that eva's story is bigger (than otherwise) because she is a woman. but the story is still largely revolving around the touchline spat and whether she should or should not have treated hazard. the accusations of sexist language by mourinho is a side thought. had this been a black physio accusing mourinho of racism, the issue would be a whole lot bigger imo.
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Two things. 1. Mourinho has not made a sexist act towards Eva similar to a monkey chant or throwing a banana. If he had, then it would have been a bigger story. 2. Even if I were to accept your point (which I don't) it still does not make Smertin's comments any more acceptable.
 
Neymar said:
smertin doesnt even realise how controversial his own words would sound to an english speaking audience. similar to the kouma incident last week.

if smertin knew, he obviously wouldnt have done the interview imo. the problem is, when the english audience slate him, unneccesary divisions are created. and it doesnt help at all in terms of resolving the issue of racism and other forms of discrimination. when at the end of the day, both ourselves and smertin probably want the same thing in terms of eliminating racism
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I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous. He's spent 7 years in this country and 1 year in France. He will know the nuances of whether giving a banana to a black player is acceptable or not.
 
milo said:
How do you know what he thinks? His comments sound quite considered to me and he was here long enough to know how this issue is seen here.
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because he said the interviewer's rewording was a much better interpretation of his thoughts
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Yes they should, but he's just shown himself to not understand the issue,
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this line of thinking is the problem imo. you're not willing to engage in conversation with him. thus you dont understand the nuances of his culture (and how it relates to racism). all you're doing is creating a them and us scenario.

we need conversation. especially with public figures like smertin who seems a generally good guy. if we can get guys like him and ourselves to engage in conversation, thats how we are going to resolve issues like this.

by being so aggressive in your judgement, when you probably know little about their culture, youre not helping at all
Gazzasrightboot said:
Has no bearing on the fact racism is wrong. Corruption is wrong too.
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and smertin says this many times in the interview too
Gazzasrightboot said:
Invading other countries is wrong as well. We're talking about racism and in this day and age it is unacceptable for any country that is hoping to host a worldwide event to be showing this. No one is saying we have a monopoly on ethics and morals, but if something is wrong, it is wrong!
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thats not the issue. no one is arguing against this. the issue is that in some cultures they cant differentiate between racism and other forms of discrimination.


Gazzasrightboot said:
Two things. 1. Mourinho has not made a sexist act towards Eva similar to a monkey chant or throwing a banana. If he had, then it would have been a bigger story.
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rumour has it, he made numerous sexist remarks
Gazzasrightboot said:
2. Even if I were to accept your point (which I don't) it still does not make Smertin's comments any more acceptable.
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again, this is the problem. your not willing to engage in conversation with him. you think that your view is right, and his view is wrong. when you probably dont even know what his views really are
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous. He's spent 7 years in this country and 1 year in France. He will know the nuances of whether giving a banana to a black player is acceptable or not.
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his comments on this matter obviously dont sound good. but im ready to believe that his lack of vocabulary has massively hindered him here. because iirc, doesnt he refers to racists as "idiots" in the interview. also when the interviewer re-interpretted his views, he said on many occasions that those were his actual thoughts on racism too.

its obvious that he cant portray his views in english properly. but because of the topic, people have gotten too emotional, and are unable to realise that smertin's lack of english has meant that he hasnt been able to do his thoughts justice
 
Neymar said:
this line of thinking is the problem imo. you're not willing to engage in conversation with him. thus you dont understand the nuances of his culture (and how it relates to racism). all you're doing is creating a them and us scenario.

we need conversation. especially with public figures like smertin who seems a generally good guy. if we can get guys like him and ourselves to engage in conversation, thats how we are going to resolve issues like this.

by being so aggressive in your judgement, when you probably know little about their culture, youre not helping at all

and smertin says this many times in the interview too

thats not the issue. no one is arguing against this. the issue is that in some cultures they cant differentiate between racism and other forms of discrimination.

rumour has it, he made numerous sexist remarks

again, this is the problem. your not willing to engage in conversation with him. you think that your view is right, and his view is wrong. when you probably dont even know what his views really are
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If someone says/intimates or tries to explain that in any scenario, in this day and age, the giving of a banana to a black man is a joke then I'm afraid that there is not a lot of understanding to be done. It's wrong. Any discrimination based on race or sex is wrong. So let's use some quotes:

"Ten years ago, some fans may have given a banana to black guys - it was just for fun." Reporter then clarifies that it was a joke. What's the joke if it is not based on race?

Russia has a real problem with racism and this is not because they have not been exposed to other nationalities.

And my view is that racism in any form is wrong. That is right. Thinking racist jokes are funny is wrong. As for knowing what his views are, he has just made them clear in an interview. As an ambassador for his country's world cup, he will have been briefed before any interview and will have known the repercussions of the interview.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
If someone says/intimates or tries to explain that in any scenario, in this day and age, the giving of a banana to a black man is a joke then I'm afraid that there is not a lot of understanding to be done. It's wrong. Any discrimination based on race or sex is wrong. So let's use some quotes:
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agreed. and it seems smertin agrees too
Gazzasrightboot said:
"Ten years ago, some fans may have given a banana to black guys - it was just for fun." Reporter then clarifies that it was a joke. What's the joke if it is not based on race?
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this is where smertin's lack of vocabularly really hurts him imo. i really doubt these words were said with the same cultural sentiment that you beleive they have been said in
Gazzasrightboot said:
Russia has a real problem with racism and this is not because they have not been exposed to other nationalities.

And my view is that racism in any form is wrong. That is right. Thinking racist jokes are funny is wrong.
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even in england the topic of "racist jokes" probably splits the population. and i think this just shows both how controversial and nuanced the whole topic of racism is
Gazzasrightboot said:
As for knowing what his views are, he has just made them clear in an interview. As an ambassador for his country's world cup, he will have been briefed before any interview and will have known the repercussions of the interview.
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he hasnt made them clear imo. hes said numerous times that his english is basically crap. how can it be clear what his views are?
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
You say sexism is not being treated seriously here and I say cobblers. The reason why the Eva story has been rumbling on is just proving that it is being taken seriously
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Whilst I agree that the work in the UK against sexism is doing very well and I don't believe there is a problem with it (past a few people whose opinions we're unlikely to change) I don't think a rage against sexism is the reason this story has legs.

If Eva looked like Miranda Hart and publication of her photos required a warning banner above the fold, I doubt the story would be getting much press. This is one of those occasions where the press gets to play out its favourite hobby of printing photos of pretty people whilst actually talking about some real news.
 
Neymar said:
we have the internet too. but for some reason we dont oppose all forms of abuse/discrimination with the same intensity. moral compasses are very complex things, and i think sometimes we (in england) are very ethnocentric in these matters. we seem to think we have a monopoly on ethics and morals.
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We're right not to treat all discrimination the same.

We all know about the ginger problem and it needs a final solution. They're not just eating our souls but they're sleeping with our women. The ginger gene is spreading and it's nearly impossible to weed out. Did you know that at this rate, by 2050 everyone will be ginger?

I'm against prejudice but let's solve this ginger problem first and worry about the rest later.

BTW, I'm not gingerist or anything, some of my best friends are 'rangas and I knocked one out to Christina Hendricks once.
 
scaramanga said:
We're right not to treat all discrimination the same.

We all know about the ginger problem and it needs a final solution. They're not just eating our souls but they're sleeping with our women. The ginger gene is spreading and it's nearly impossible to weed out. Did you know that at this rate, by 2050 everyone will be ginger?

I'm against prejudice but let's solve this ginger problem first and worry about the rest later.

BTW, I'm not gingerist or anything, some of my best friends are 'rangas and I knocked one out to Christina Hendricks once.
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There is danger afoot my friend...

https://www.tremr.com/amadeus-redha/first-ever-ginger-pride-festival-in-england-to-happen-in-2016
 
scaramanga said:
It's a slippery slope.

Let them March now, they'll want to ride at the front of the bus soon.
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Who is their 'GHod'? Mick Hucknell? Tilda Swinton? Gary Doherty? Hendricks would be worthy, and if I didn't admit to getting the old fella out for a phwap over prime-time Nicole Kidman once or twice, I would be lying to you...but seriously, who is going to lead the parade? Ray Parlour????
 
thfcsteff said:
Who is their 'GHod'? Mick Hucknell? Tilda Swinton? Gary Doherty? Hendricks would be worthy, and if I didn't admit to getting the old fella out for a phwap over prime-time Nicole Kidman once or twice, I would be lying to you...but seriously, who is going to lead the parade? Ray Parlour????
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I believe their current leader is Ed Sheeran. He's waging war by blanding everyone to death.
 
thfcsteff said:
Who is their 'GHod'? Mick Hucknell? Tilda Swinton? Gary Doherty? Hendricks would be worthy, and if I didn't admit to getting the old fella out for a phwap over prime-time Nicole Kidman once or twice, I would be lying to you...but seriously, who is going to lead the parade? Ray Parlour????
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Hendricks isn't actually a redhead, she's a natural blonde.
 
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