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Shooting in Denver

You never miss an opportunity to bash the US. It's hackneyed at this point.

Mate - we don't sell guns at Wal Mart here and you have what? 12,000 murders a year? We have 600.

You're being a typical thin skinned American with this, we love your country but we're allowed to criticise as well.
 
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Why doesn't it happen in this country then?

ONce every what? 5/10 years here??

As I said, probably not worded it good enough, it requires planning. I'm sure there are loads of people around that had thoughts of doing something at some point.
 
I would never want the UK to legalise guns in the UK for civilians, but in America is can see the argument for keeping them. The fact is that now they have so many guns, you'll never get rid of them. Every criminal will have a gun regardless of any change of the law, which makes me think if I were in the US I'd like to have one too. I'm not sure I agree with the concept of guns for self defence, but knowing every criminal has one would make me want to carry one too.

Also, lets be clear that these kind of shootings happen everywhere. Norway has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and even worse shootings happened there last year

Are you a member of the NRA?

You make them illegal and don't sell them....overnight the death rate would plummet
 
As I said, probably not worded it good enough, it requires planning. I'm sure there are loads of people around that had thoughts of doing something at some point.

I agree that with determination anyone can commit a random act of mass violence.

We don't need to make it easy for them though!

If someone really wants to they will break into your house. You don't leave the front door open though do you?
 
Anyone got any decent statistics for gun owners in the us? Wonder how many are official gun owners and then how many are thought to have guns illegally?
 
HOw would you know the number of illegal guns though?

Canada has higher gun ownership than the US, and far far fewer murders.....so this tells me there are bigger cultural and social issues at play....i.e. gangs etc.
 
don't you get a gun for opening a bank account in some states?

Yep, countries not messed up though, its normal behaviour this sort of thing

North Country Financial Corp. is exchanging firearms for deposits, giving away rifles and
shotguns in lieu of the interest that normally accompanies accounts.

Put as little as $869 in a 20-year certificate of deposit, and the Traverse City,
Mich.-based bank will hand over a Weatherby Inc. Mark V Synthetic rifle that normally lists for
$779. Deposit more, and you have a choice of six Weatherby shotguns or limited-edition rifle
with walnut stock and oak-leaf engravings.

The bank has 28 branches, mostly in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and the guns-for-CDs
program is a potent weapon in the fight for Americans' savings at a time of shrinking bank
deposits.

Banks across the country are offering everything from $50 gift certificates and books to
casserole dishes and clocks --even toasters -- to lure back customers and stem a seven-year
decline in deposits as Americans shifted money into stocks and mutual funds.

U.S. time deposits, including CDs, totaled about $1.05 trillion at the end of last year,
down from $1.17 trillion in 1990, according to the Federal Reserve. In the decade, assets in
mutual funds surged to $6.82 trillion at the end of November from $1.07 trillion at the end of
1990, the Investment Company Institute said.

Offering freebies for deposits gives banks "a way to get the customer in front of us,"
said Ken Lewis, president and chief operating officer of Charlotte-based Bank of America Corp.,
which has more deposits than any other U.S. bank. Just getting customers back in the door
"gives us an opportunity to sell other products as well," he said.
 
I'm sorry to say that I think America will never be able to ban guns - it's buried so deep in the foundation of the country that they regard it as a more important human right than the right to basic healthcare. There is no point in anyone attempting to push the policy of gun control, as they will be out funded and out shouted by the NRA et al. I'm just very very glad I don't live there. Shootings like this will continue to occur and many more innocent Americans will lose their lives because of it, but I'm afraid it's something that must be accepted.
 
Are you a member of the NRA?

You make them illegal and don't sell them....overnight the death rate would plummet

There are estimated over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US. Death rate plummet overnight? It wouldn't even change. All criminals will have them regardless. If you think by outlawing them you suddenly have a British-esque firearms death rate you're out of your mind. I would be surprised if Britain had more than a few thousand privately owned guns, which makes them much, much harder to obtain.

Most criminals already carry guns illegally in the US. If you have a criminal record you can't buy a gun, but they still get them because there are so many in circulation. Even if half the guns are handed in, thats still 100 million firearms.
 
Mate - we don't sell guns at Wal Mart here and you have what? 12,000 murders a year? We have 600.

You're being a typical thin skinned American with this, we love your country but we're allowed to criticise as well.
I didn't say anything to you, just to Marky. Of course you're allowed to be critical. I'm highly critical of the lax gun laws in this country. I'm just tired of Marky's attitude. He deliberately provokes, and it's getting old. That has to be clear by now.

There's a difference between lambasting gun laws and saying a country is screwed up. Smacks of envy every time he does it.
 
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HOw would you know the number of illegal guns though?

Canada has higher gun ownership than the US, and far far fewer murders.....so this tells me there are bigger cultural and social issues at play....i.e. gangs etc.

No it doesn't. Even at highest estimates, the numbers in circulation is 10% that of America. I would also suspect the number of handguns in Canada is very low, most will be rifles and shotguns like in the UK for hunting, and it's handguns that do the killing
 
I didn't say anything to you, just to Marky. Of course you're allowed to be critical. I'm highly critical of the lax gun laws in this country. I'm just tired of Marky's attitude. He deliberately provokes, and it's getting old. That has to be clear by now.

There's a difference between lambasting gun laws and saying a country is screwed up. Smacks of envy every time he does it.

Get over yourself

I wish lived in a land of fatties who go round shooting themselves, yeh dead jealous of the US and A over England my country
 
There are estimated over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US. Death rate plummet overnight? It wouldn't even change. All criminals will have them regardless. If you think by outlawing them you suddenly have a British-esque firearms death rate you're out of your mind. I would be surprised if Britain had more than a few thousand privately owned guns, which makes them much, much harder to obtain.

Most criminals already carry guns illegally in the US. If you have a criminal record you can't buy a gun, but they still get them because there are so many in circulation. Even if half the guns are handed in, thats still 100 million firearms.

it is an interesting question

i think we all agree the issue of de-arming criminals is almost a non starter (although may be a positive side effect of a gun ban)

but making gun ownership illegal except for business use (back to the criminals again!! :p) with a 12 months amnesty would reduce some of the murders
but i think the key question is - of the 12k murders (or whatever the actual figure is), how many of them are with legal firearms and how many without

this is a subject quite close to my heart as i will move to the US in the next 5-10 years. i have some family there that own guns, some that a pretty republican and some that are also very left! (British standard left - not US left)
 
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