Kandi1977
Vic Buckingham
No it isn't. It's about adopting to a change in the game.
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VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Why change the ref out of black.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
I think he was making the general point that any change, regardless of what it is, will always bring controversy at first until it settles down.
Btw I'm fully behind you on the impact the process of VAR is having on those actually in the stadium. Wasn't there on Tuesday night but I was for the Rochdale cup tie last season and that was a total farce. You had to be there to understand how ludicrous it was, how it impacted so negatively on your emotions and punctured the vibrancy and spontaneity of the game as a spectacle.
However, overall I am generally in favour of the principle of VAR but believe it still has many teething troubles to iron out. Like it or not it is here to stay and imo will quickly improve to the point where it becomes generally acceptable, in much the same way as it has in cricket, tennis and other sports.
For example I foresee a time when the VAR will be able to relay to the referee an instant verdict on offsides in much the same way as the lino does at present. I'm guessing here but it's not hard to imagine that boffins will be able to come up with a screen showing for example permanent parallel gridlines capable of continuously tracking and signalling potential offsides. Such technology would enable the VAR to make an instant decision in real time that he can then more or less simultaneously relay to the on-field referee.
So the lino's offside flag could eventually become obsolete and play will carry on as normal until the ref blows for offside just as he does now for any other transgression.
While a lot of calls are subjective the elite clubs will benefit from VAR, in both decisions and what will be reviewed.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The best solution would be two referees - one for each half of the pitch (like ice hockey). That instantly kills the megalomaniac egos, and ensures they are closer to the action
Different refs have different styles / tolerances I would not like this
As with this reasoning with VAR from MonkeyBarry it is also the solution to not having VAR.
"But actually getting rid of irrelevant punditry would be better. Everything in football has to be over analysed these days because it is the broadcasters business model.
Just because it is over debated, doesn't make the debate relevant."
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
They went to VAR. Perhaps they broke a rule, or perhaps you dont know them as well as you think you do?
There is an argument against VAR that people WANT the mistakes, the human element. There is apparently proof that it exists and guess what? People moan about that too!
Either way, this was a round of games to test the process and - in this case - the right call was made. The linesman was wrong to call offside, we should have got a penalty and we did.
Im yet to come across ANYONE outside of this forum with any issue at all with the game/decision. Im wondering how much of it is genuine and how much general forum polarisation.
Your links are weak, and I think you know it. The first makes a big deal about protests etc but VAR is only a part of it worthy of a short paragraph. The second is saying anecdotally "Some people dont like it". Neither provide evidence of anything in particular.
@parklane1 youve gone a bit quiet mate
Baleforce
Vinnie Samways
This
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
Yeh for sure, there was a great interview with Buffon where Juve won I think with the help of VAR and he hated it, said he woudl rather lose than win with it or some comment like that, he was very passionate against it at the time.
Its a funny one because when someone like Poch comes out and says he wants to win but not in this way, you can't ignore that
Tell me how the below can be misinterpreted? - You say the right call was made about half the people I have spoken to are convinced it was just offside, what is clear is they didn't follow their own criteria.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
Video assistant referee (VAR)
The use of video assistant referees (VARS) is only permitted where the match/competition organiser has fulfilled all the VAR protocol and implementation requirements (as set out in the VAR Handbook) and has received written permission from The IFAB and FIFA.
The referee may be assisted by a video assistant referee (VAR) only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to:
- goal/no goal
- penalty/no penalty
- direct red card (not second caution)
- mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team
Except for a 'serious missed incident' the referee (and where relevant other 'on-field', match officials) must always make a decision (including a decision not to penalise a potential offence); this decision does not change unless it is a 'clear and obvious error'.
My links were fine, there is no proof out there as yet as there has been no mass poll what it does show is there is discontent with VAR and how it is changing the flow / spontaneity of the game.
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
From my perspective I can handle human error always have been and I know that might be just my view but thats where I stand with it, in the same way human error is in the game from manager selections and player mistakes, it happens, ref mistakes although able to highlight were never in my opinion that bad that they needed to be addressed.
Supporters saying it works its just badly applied, well for me thats the same thing, the application is all part and parcel of the same package that is VAR to me, people not being able to used it or implement it properly is not a valid excuse for VAR in my opinion.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that it is being used properly, at least it certainly was on Tuesday night. I understand that it is frustrating not knowing what is going on in the stadium but people will get used to it over time. Chelsea are just making excuses for losing, only a fool would think that VAR could stop managers trying to blame others for their team's mistakes.
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
But you do know that is why it was introduced don't you? That was part of the stated reason to introduce it.
Refereeing decisions are not the real problem here and never have been. The real problem is the ludicrously disproportionate attention devoted to discussing refereeing decisions by managers. The number of actual injustices is minuscule compared to the rage of managers in the past.
And that in large is down to managers not being able to look at themselves in the mirror and accept that maybe they lost due to their own issues ala Mourinho.
My issue with this moving forward is thus....for me VAR or haweye etc only really works when used as sparingly as possible. Thats in every sport. Will football accept its sparing use on just the absolute howlers or will it evolve in the sport to be something that is used as a panic button because of the rage that could follow a bad decsion? The reason again the technology was introduced to avoid. In a sport thats so fast paced and full of subjective decisions based on force or intent there is a very VERY dodgy line here that needs to be established on when the system and how often it is used.
For me football is not about establishing the absolute facts, not about getting to the bottom of why someone may have fallen over and the effect it may have had on the game, not about a perfect science, if I wanted that I would watch dots on a screen.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Which comes down to clear and obvious error. Which is interpretation, isnt it? Maybe you feel it wasnt clear, but the VAR team did.
Just as with offside - I havent seen a genuine complaint that it wasnt. The nearest was "do you look at his feet or upper body - well I think its supposed to be any part you can score from - that was his shoulder, so its onside.."
Hardly half the country CONVINCED otherwise. Come on! Its that close how can anyone be convinced otherwise?
You are talking as if its another Mendes type incident, its not.
Its a decision made, by the professional, with the ability to zoom in and check against a marker and everything.
He is wrong and half the country of casual fans are right?
Your links prove nothing. If I could be bothered Im sure I could find pages on the virtues of it as well, would you take it as anything other than a few peoples opinion?
And ALL of this is looking at a testing phase of all things. Not the final implementation.
Already I think everyone would agree it is much improved on the world cup. Is it not fair to wait and see if it improves further?
I can understand that. I dont share the view, I find common and silly errors in officiating something that really tinkle me off.
Particularly when you are watching a game and the muppet pundits in the studio have all the tools to immediately disect the decision and make the right shout. Clearly the facility is there, but the refs arent using it.
For me VAR, in theory at least, puts that all right.
As to the implementation, as I said to rusx - its a work in progress. One that is improving on every testing IMO.
Is it fair to judge it as if "thats it"?
Not you specifically, but after this round the only things I can see as tangible complaints are
1) I just dont like it, and
2) It was confusing/disconcerting/I didnt know what was going on and thats frustrating.
1) there can be little done about. Though as with many things I suspect a majority of people will come round with time.
2) Isnt a "VAR" problem per se, rather a communication one it seems. SOmething that can be easily remedied.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think, referees being human after all, there are many circumstances where the right decision isnt made.
Peer pressure, fear of a mistake, the fact the incident was only seen from a distance in real time only once...
How many times have we seen, OT, 88th minute, Stam clears someone out in the box, clear penalty - NOT GIVEN.
Im not saying the ref is bent. I am saying the ref is under immense pressure, he knows if he gives a penalty that wasnt he will be in League 1 next week, after Fergie has mauled him in the press... And inevitably that influences his decision.
Bring in VAR, and that abstraction from the game allows for an impartial decision. The fact its all reviewed and monitored etc should mean the right sporting call will be made regardless of Fergie scowling from the touchline.
And THAT is a bloody brilliant thing, IMHO, if we can bring it in in an effective way.
For me, Chelsea was a success. VAR didnt disrupt the game but it did make sure a very difficult decision was called correctly. Not something I believe possible in real time without a degree of guessing (and, likely, the ref playing it safe and saying no pen).
Maangers will tinkle and moan about anything that distracts the masses. If VAR persists eventually they simply wont be able to. Right now I believe Chelsea/Sarri are just trying to push and apply pressure, I dont think its a genuine complaint. They know they benefit in those intangible ways and would prefer it stays that way.
I think you are absolutely right in it being used sparingly.
It doesnt need to be any more than that. It really just needs to be - this is a big decision, lets get it right.
For me thats not robotic, thats maintaining sporting integrity. Take the human failing out of it, and just let the RIGHT decision rule. If a team deserves and advantage, or penalising, it gets it.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'm content with getting more decisions right and think that the game will be better for it. I think that it is being used sparingly in football and that the biggest issue at the moment, is that people aren't used to it. I do not see the breaks in play as being any worse than those for fake injuries, which happen far more regularly. My one quibble at the moment, is players arguing with the ref over VAR decisions/referrals, I would like to see some cards issued for this.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Arguing with the referee is very important physiologically. It's how you try and establish power over them. You are not arguing about the decision he has just made, you are influencing the next one he'll make.
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
On those two points, on the first I agree its a work in progress but it should not be in the top level of the game in this case, in my opinion. It still seems to me there are clear lines of use that are not yet agreed and until they are they should be testing this behind closed doors and in lesser events.
On the second point that part for people is a huge part of it all, like I mention in my post if you are not someone striving for perfection from the ref etc then you its going to be a HUGE frustration if your in stadium enjoyment is being sucked out the game.
I remember a game when the sytsem was used early on, think it was Chelsea and the confusion was so much in the stadium that there was a direct knock on to the atmosphere.
I would say the same happened this week at Spurs but in total I found it a odd atmosphere