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Victor Wanyama

Roy1983 said:
I didn't see the need to play two defensive midfielder yesterday in Dier and Wanyama but we won nonetheless.
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We did it because we were pretty much playing 2 up front. I think Kane had less defensive responsibility than Alli does when playing as the number 10. In effect we were playing a 4-4-2 (or I guess in reality a 4-4-1-1) instead of our usual 4-2-3-1. I think that is probably also why Pochettino played Lamela on the left and Eriksen on the right so that they could provide natural width by going on the outside on their favoured foot.
 
scaramanga said:
I think that's the issue for me - he's efficient with his passing but not much else.

That's not to say he isn't better under a more settled team on better form - I readily admit to not having seen a lot of him. At the moment though, I think Dier fits a passing side in terms of what he does with the ball quite a lot more than Wanyama does.
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Again, I disagree. I didn't see Dier being any more creative than Wanyama on Saturday, in fact Wanyama completed a couple of dribbles to open up space whereas I don't recall Dier attempting to beat a player at all?

As I said just now, I felt that on Saturday we played a pretty standard 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 type formation. We didn't play with our usual set holding player as we did with Dier last season. Instead Dier and Dembele were playing as pretty standard central midfielders. I think the idea was that we had 4 players who could play pretty much as out and out attackers (Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Janssen). I think both Dier and Wanyama were told to support our attacks by positioning themselves centrally half way inside the opposition's half, so that they were available to receive and recycle the ball to our creative, attacking 4, but also well positioned to combat the oppoition's counter attacks in the event of us losing the ball.
 
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Looked like our standard 4231 to me - Kane popping up all over the place as usual and Janssen either leading the line or dropping deep/wide to allow others in

Splitting hairs though really
 
Finney Is Back said:
Again, I disagree. I didn't see Dier being any more creative than Wanyama on Saturday, in fact Wanyama completed a couple of dribbles to open up space whereas I don't recall Dier attempting to beat a player at all?

As I said just now, I felt that on Saturday we played a pretty standard 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 type formation. We didn't play with our usual set holding player as we did with Dier last season. Instead Dier and Dembele were playing as pretty standard central midfielders. I think the idea was that we had 4 players who could play pretty much as out and out attackers (Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Janssen). I think both Dier and Dembele were told to support our attacks by positioning themselves centrally half way inside the opposition's half, so that they were available to receive and recycle the ball to our creative, attacking 4, but also well positioned to combat the oppoition's counter attacks in the event of us losing the ball.
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I don't think Dier was any more creative on Saturday than Wanyama, but I have seen him be so in the past - I haven't with Wanyama.

I agree that both were sitting and releasing the others and I think the quality of our attacking play suffered from it. It's hard to say definitively in one game, especially when the other side is bus parking, but I think that link between defence and attack relied heavily on Janssen holding the ball up rather than passing through the opposition.
 
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scaramanga said:
I don't think Dier was any more creative on Saturday than Wanyama, but I have seen him be so in the past - I haven't with Wanyama.

I agree that both were sitting and releasing the others and I think the quality of our attacking play suffered from it. It's hard to say definitively in one game, especially when the other side is bus parking, but I think that link between defence and attack relied heavily on Janssen holding the ball up rather than passing through the opposition.
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Could that just be because you have seen more of Dier than Wanyama though?

Personally I didn't think our attacking play suffered at all compared to games last season against teams who looked to sit deep and play on the break against us. I thought we had a number of good situations that we didn't capitalise on - as well as the Janssen miss there were also 3 or 4 occasions when we were breaking with 3 attackers against 2 defenders or 4 attackers against 3 defenders and just let ourselves down with our final ball (Eriksen a couple of times, Kane once and I think Lamela once) Those players taking a poor option or delivering a bad ball are nothing to do with us having a central midfield pair Dier/Wanyama.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Could that just be because you have seen more of Dier than Wanyama though?
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Absolutely, that's what I'm hoping is the case. He may or may not be better on the ball than I've seen so far, I'm just pointing out that I'd like him to be.

Finney Is Back said:
Personally I didn't think our attacking play suffered at all compared to games last season against teams who looked to sit deep and play on the break against us. I thought we had a number of good situations that we didn't capitalise on - as well as the Janssen miss there were also 3 or 4 occasions when we were breaking with 3 attackers against 2 defenders or 4 attackers against 3 defenders and just let ourselves down with our final ball (Eriksen a couple of times, Kane once and I think Lamela once) Those players taking a poor option or delivering a bad ball are nothing to do with us having a central midfield pair Dier/Wanyama.
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There was some awful decision making on the breaks, really poor. I agree that's nothing to do with the CM.

I do think there was a disconnect though when we started from deep between the midfield and attack, something that doesn't tend to be there when we have Dier/Dembele in midfield.
 
Found it interesting how Dier and Wanyama were interchanging at the heart of the defence as it split when in possession.

All good practice for when Dembele is back to play just ahead of them with 3 of Kane, Janssen, Alli, Lamela and Eriksen as a front 3. Great option for big away games i.e. Champions League Semi Final Second Leg at the Bernebeu (victorious).
 
Pandy said:
Found it interesting how Dier and Wanyama were interchanging at the heart of the defence as it split when in possession.

All good practice for when Dembele is back to play just ahead of them with 3 of Kane, Janssen, Alli, Lamela and Eriksen as a front 3. Great option for big away games i.e. Champions League Semi Final Second Leg at the Bernebeu (victorious).
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Do you think the benefit of having Wanyama in the team is enough to drop one of Kane, Alli, Lamela or Eriksen? When those listed are on form I absolutely don't.
 
scaramanga said:
Do you think the benefit of having Wanyama in the team is enough to drop one of Kane, Alli, Lamela or Eriksen? When those listed are on form I absolutely don't.
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If it stops us conceding yes. What are the stats on how many leads we surrendered last season?
 
SpurMeUp said:
If it stops us conceding yes. What are the stats on how many leads we surrendered last season?
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Last season we were 4th in the league for shots against and first for shots on target against. ExpG against matched what one would expect from those figures. Defence is not our problem. Over reliance on shots from outside the box, and general number of high value chances created is.

Also, putting in an extra defensive player and losing some ability to keep the ball/threaten the opposition does not necessarily make you better defensively.
 
scaramanga said:
Do you think the benefit of having Wanyama in the team is enough to drop one of Kane, Alli, Lamela or Eriksen? When those listed are on form I absolutely don't.
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Today I totally agree.

This is going to be an interesting time for Poch. He loves Victor and I can see why but Dier and him stifle us going forward ATM. Stick Jannsen into the mix and we lose even more in the early attacking transition IMHO. It's early days with the new guys being added to the puzzle.

I will be bloody annoyed if Dier loses out to Wanyama long term unless we gain tangible benefits,which I dont ATM see. With CL and cups the bigger squad is paramount if we dont want to do what we did last two seasons in Europe which is basically not bother.
 
Thought he played well on Saturday and agree that him and Dier isn't really working.

I love dier but for me wanyama has been the better player in both games and has added more going forward and looked good defensively till now. Dier looks leggy at the minute and if we are to play a more expansive midfielder then right now dier should be the one the make way based on form. Like me a lot fans have a man crush on dier but we need see the fact that dier hasn't performed that well to date and his place is currently the one under threat if there was to be a change
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I'm not bothered, this is exactly the problems I like us to have. Last season we were all on tender hooks worried about an injury to Kane or Dier as there were no replacements that could do the job effectively, now I think we have. Just sort out cover for Eriksen and I'll be a happy bunny.
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It wasn't that long ago, people were saying the likes of, Dier and Kane were playing far to many games and needed resting. Now, two games into the season and people are worried they wont playing in all the games due to our additions to the squad.

Poch has got this. Surely we should all be happy?
 
wiziwig said:
It wasn't that long ago, people were saying the likes of, Dier and Kane were playing far to many games and needed resting. Now, two games into the season and people are worried they wont playing in all the games due to our additions to the squad.

Poch has got this. Surely we should all be happy?
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Exactly!

I wonder who will be still here next thursday?
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I'm not bothered, this is exactly the problems I like us to have. Last season we were all on tender hooks worried about an injury to Kane or Dier as there were no replacements that could do the job effectively, now I think we have. Just sort out cover for Eriksen and I'll be a happy bunny.
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For cover for Erikssen I'd personally take back Sigurdsson however unlikely that may be.
 
LCLC said:
Thought he played well on Saturday and agree that him and Dier isn't really working.

I love dier but for me wanyama has been the better player in both games and has added more going forward and looked good defensively till now. Dier looks leggy at the minute and if we are to play a more expansive midfielder then right now dier should be the one the make way based on form. Like me a lot fans have a man crush on dier but we need see the fact that dier hasn't performed that well to date and his place is currently the one under threat if there was to be a change
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I think Diers game has suffered "impact" wise as he is being covered for by Wanyama, not necessarily because he is playing poorly or at a lower level.
 
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