Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Mrs Vert]

Again, the first 20 minutes were terribly handled by Oliver, who allowed persistent bad fouls on Maddison, Son and others. Make no mistake, I agree with all the cards we got in that one, I just think Oliver should've handed out at least 4 yellows to Chelsea before Udogie's, including a double yellow on Caicedo.

I think we can all be right with regard to saying we have to control our tackles. But in all games this season, the other teams have just gotten away with fouls and in some games didn't get their first yellow until like 85min.

It's incompetent/unfair/conspiracy. Whatever. The fact is I can't understand how one team can get away with like 15 fouls and only get 1 card. While we may commit 5 and get 3 yellows. Statistically that is quite amazing isn't it?? We have been lucky not to see straight Reds. But generally the refs have really wound me up

I don't watch all other games for 90min so can't mention what other fans go thru. But each team has been done I'm sure

 

[Mrs Vert]

That’s the kicker
The elbow from Rhys James was a red yet this season they literally let them go on VAR which I don’t get
they shared the fouls around really smartly in that game which is why they didn’t get carded

But a foul is a foul even if all 10 did one each! And one of those players statically making a "clever" foul is quite the skill. In which case we should employ someone to teach us to do the same and not get a card!

The handball Odergard did against Pool was amazing. And fast forward to Saudi Sportswashing Machine get given 2. I don't hold much hope for when we go to Anfield. And it will probably be Michael Oliver.

 

[Raziel]

I think we can all be right with regard to saying we have to control our tackles. But in all games this season, the other teams have just gotten away with fouls and in some games didn't get their first yellow until like 85min.

It's incompetent/unfair/conspiracy. Whatever. The fact is I can't understand how one team can get away with like 15 fouls and only get 1 card. While we may commit 5 and get 3 yellows. Statistically that is quite amazing isn't it?? We have been lucky not to see straight Reds. But generally the refs have really wound me up

I don't watch all other games for 90min so can't mention what other fans go thru. But each team has been done I'm sure

This is the point I was making earlier

- There is terrible incompetence and inconsistency with refs in the PL, that affects everyone
- We have players that have done stupid brick (be smarter when on a yellow, be smarter when you accumulate too many yellows)

But statistically something is wrong, in December we got yellow cards at 2X the rate of our opposition, literally wtf? and this is reasonably consistent throughout the season. And this is in a model where most games the opposition tactic (even against teams like City) is to foul us to break the rhythm of our game, and most games we end up with less fouls than our opposition. Dismissing that is a little disingenuous ..

 

[Raziel]

Anyway, back to Ange, last season Spurs vs. this ...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Neketiah on Vicario, Cash on Bentancur, recent tackle on Deki, give me 10 minutes and I could probably come up with 6-7 red cards we didn't get this season. Even Sunday, Bournemouth's #19 should have been off twice for second yellow and ref bottled it, and this is about the third time in December that the ref has bottled it so hard on the second yellow the opposition manager has done an early sub (knowing the next one is off).

Cash on Bentancur wasn’t a red card offence. There are typically also examples of reds we could’ve had that we didn’t get, for example the Udogie jumping two footer on /sterling in the Chelsea game, also the Romero challenge(?) against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Bournemouth’s 19 could’ve gone for a second yellow (though only once, not twice, one of the subsequent fouls was never a yellow). Equally though Skipp also could’ve gone for a second yellow in the Bournemouth game, so the ref was consistent in not sending off either player.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Udogie was lucky not to be sent off in that game as well.

He was sent off

Again, the first 20 minutes were terribly handled by Oliver, who allowed persistent bad fouls on Maddison, Son and others. Make no mistake, I agree with all the cards we got in that one, I just think Oliver should've handed out at least 4 yellows to Chelsea before Udogie's, including a double yellow on Caicedo.

To be fair I’ve largely blocked that game out of my memory and don’t ever want to see it again, including highlights as it really killed our season. The only things that stay in my mind are the red cards and the injuries to VDV and Maddison. Honestly don’t remember anything before the red cards, including our goal.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think we can all be right with regard to saying we have to control our tackles. But in all games this season, the other teams have just gotten away with fouls and in some games didn't get their first yellow until like 85min.

It's incompetent/unfair/conspiracy. Whatever. The fact is I can't understand how one team can get away with like 15 fouls and only get 1 card. While we may commit 5 and get 3 yellows. Statistically that is quite amazing isn't it?? We have been lucky not to see straight Reds. But generally the refs have really wound me up

I don't watch all other games for 90min so can't mention what other fans go thru. But each team has been done I'm sure

Not all fouls are created equal.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is the point I was making earlier

- There is terrible incompetence and inconsistency with refs in the PL, that affects everyone
- We have players that have done stupid brick (be smarter when on a yellow, be smarter when you accumulate too many yellows)

But statistically something is wrong, in December we got yellow cards at 2X the rate of our opposition, literally wtf? and this is reasonably consistent throughout the season. And this is in a model where most games the opposition tactic (even against teams like City) is to foul us to break the rhythm of our game, and most games we end up with less fouls than our opposition. Dismissing that is a little disingenuous ..

Not all fouls are created equal. To expand on that ref’s would typically only book a player on the trotting up process on their 4th or 5th petty foul, sometimes their 3rd foul if they are in quite close succession.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is the point I was making earlier

- There is terrible incompetence and inconsistency with refs in the PL, that affects everyone
- We have players that have done stupid brick (be smarter when on a yellow, be smarter when you accumulate too many yellows)

But statistically something is wrong, in December we got yellow cards at 2X the rate of our opposition, literally wtf? and this is reasonably consistent throughout the season. And this is in a model where most games the opposition tactic (even against teams like City) is to foul us to break the rhythm of our game, and most games we end up with less fouls than our opposition. Dismissing that is a little disingenuous ..

I think that’s the issue of concern
Why are we getting yellows for less fouls?
Are they worse or is it because they are reactionary as generally we have the ball much more the opposition
Hard to tell

 

[Finney Is Back]

Anyway, back to Ange, last season Spurs vs. this ...

Phenomenal!…. What constitutes ‘physicality’ by the way?

Also interesting to see ‘counters’ so high in a team that dominates possession. Does this come from the fact that we try to suck the opposition close to our goal in numbers with our balls out from Vicario to the CBs and then play through them? Would those sorts of attacks be defined as counters?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think that’s the issue of concern
Why are we getting yellows for less fouls?
Are they worse or is it because they are reactionary as generally we have the ball much more the opposition
Hard to tell

I don’t think I’ve been annoyed/surprised by any of our yellow cards this season other than one for a slightly over exuberant shoulder barge by Udogie (no need for that one to be a yellow). The rest have all been justified.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don’t think I’ve been annoyed/surprised by any of our yellow cards this season other than one for a slightly over exuberant shoulder barge by Udogie (no need for that one to be a yellow). The rest have all been justified.

Yep
Well… the kulu yellow vs Everton for kicking the ball 2 yards was a joke of a call IMO.

 

[spurspinter1]

I don’t think I’ve been annoyed/surprised by any of our yellow cards this season other than one for a slightly over exuberant shoulder barge by Udogie (no need for that one to be a yellow). The rest have all been justified.

It's crazy it's even a debate but I guess some need to find something external to moan about.

Complaining that a lot of Romero's fouls are yellow cards is evidence that the ref is doing his job, have these people not seen the way he tackles!?!?

The discipline issue is a real thing caused by our player's actions , not some tin foil conspiracy theory about the refs being overly harsh on us. The counter to that, the silver lining even, is that due to the good work put in elsewhere is that the players don't buckle when put in less than ideal circumstances by teammates getting joke red cards / suspensions. I almost don't want to acknowledge it to jinx it but even when things don't go our way the players don't capitulate, particularly post Conte the displays were disgraceful, partly understandable due to awful choices like putting Steilini / Mason back in charge but not good enough in any circumstance.

It's crazy how far we've come when you think about it, I just really hope we can do ourselves proud in the FA cup, there's no rewards for doing pretty well in the league for a while. If we crash out I guess injuries is the go to excuse but that doesn't work for the league cup. The mood being massively improved isn't something to belittle it'd be incredible to come away with more than that come the end of the season but that's perhaps impatience speaking...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yep
Well… the kulu yellow vs Everton for kicking the ball 2 yards was a joke of a call IMO.

Perhaps but there is also no need for him to do it. Pick the ball up, retreat and then do one of those high looping throws back to the opposition if you really want to give a bit of time for the team to get set.

I‘ve commented for a while that I think it should be an automatic yellow for any player on the side of the team that committed the foul if they that touch the ball after the free kick has been awarded and before it is taken. It would cut out all of that sort of nonsense. Of course refs would have to apply a bit of discretion in instances where players are genuinely committed to a tackle/shot/pass at the point the whistle goes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's crazy it's even a debate but I guess some need to find something external to moan about.

Complaining that a lot of Romero's fouls are yellow cards is evidence that the ref is doing his job, have these people not seen the way he tackles!?!?

The discipline issue is a real thing caused by our player's actions , not some tin foil conspiracy theory about the refs being overly harsh on us. The counter to that, the silver lining even, is that due to the good work put in elsewhere is that the players don't buckle when put in less than ideal circumstances by teammates getting joke red cards / suspensions. I almost don't want to acknowledge it to jinx it but even when things don't go our way the players don't capitulate, particularly post Conte the displays were disgraceful, partly understandable due to awful choices like putting Steilini / Mason back in charge but not good enough in any circumstance.

It's crazy how far we've come when you think about it, I just really hope we can do ourselves proud in the FA cup, there's no rewards for doing pretty well in the league for a while. If we crash out I guess injuries is the go to excuse but that doesn't work for the league cup. The mood being massively improved isn't something to belittle it'd be incredible to come away with more than that come the end of the season but that's perhaps impatience speaking...

In some ways I think we are a bit like Wenger’s early Arsenal teams, very attacking but somewhat ill disciplined. If Spurs under Ange can emulate Wenger’s trophy haul at the Woolwich Wanderers then I’ll die a happy man.

 

[Grays_1890]

In some ways I think we are a bit like Wenger’s early Arsenal teams, very attacking but somewhat ill disciplined. If Spurs under Ange can emulate Wenger’s trophy haul at the Woolwich Wanderers then I’ll die a happy man.

Yeh for me it's not a massive moan as I think we will find our groove but it's no one else's fault than ours.

I think there is an element where our style draws fouls and we have to get used to that and not decend into a Chelsea match.

I'm 100% sure given the nature of the game that it's something we wil try and work on in-house rather than rely on subliminal interview messages from Ange to get some weird levelling up which doesn't exist

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In some ways I think we are a bit like Wenger’s early Arsenal teams, very attacking but somewhat ill disciplined. If Spurs under Ange can emulate Wenger’s trophy haul at the Woolwich Wanderers then I’ll die a happy man.

We are similar to Artetas side last season with similar issues IMO

 

[Bishop]

Phenomenal!…. What constitutes ‘physicality’ by the way?

Also interesting to see ‘counters’ so high in a team that dominates possession. Does this come from the fact that we try to suck the opposition close to our goal in numbers with our balls out from Vicario to the CBs and then play through them? Would those sorts of attacks be defined as counters?

We still play a lot on transition, just think of all the attacks especially when Maddison was fit in the first half of the season when we had 3 on 3s or 2 on 2s. Even the best chances we had in the last match a lot of them were in transition.

Ange's system is quite versatile, we aren't all possession, possession, possession. We deffo play for the counter and transitions. The more space we have the deadlier we are.

 

[thfcsteff]

He was sent off


To be fair I’ve largely blocked that game out of my memory and don’t ever want to see it again, including highlights as it really killed our season. The only things that stay in my mind are the red cards and the injuries to VDV and Maddison. Honestly don’t remember anything before the red cards, including our goal.

If you can stomach it, take a gander. Poch pushed our young buttons. The fractional offside was a lever to boiling point, added with the dirty rotational fouls. Not excusing us per se, but you can see where it came from.

 

[braineclipse]

We still play a lot on transition, just think of all the attacks especially when Maddison was fit in the first half of the season when we had 3 on 3s or 2 on 2s. Even the best chances we had in the last match a lot of them were in transition.

Ange's system is quite versatile, we aren't all possession, possession, possession. We deffo play for the counter and transitions. The more space we have the deadlier we are.

Agreed. Definitely both that we play through high pressure creating "pseudo counter attacks (or whatever we should call those), but also genuine counter attacks after winning the ball.

We're definitely not possession for the sake of possession and are often rather direct (usually not long ball direct, but direct none the less) mixing it up with some more patient buildup play.

We've seen recently a more transitional focus for periods of games where we've been unable to control the majority of possession because of missing players. I definitely see that flexibility as a strength.