Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[braineclipse]

Very big conversation here

- Obviously the end goal of any top level club (and Spurs must be considered that) is to win trophies, and we will be measured as such
- As a fan, those SF/Final days do matter
- Yet as a fan, I pay for a season ticket, I watch ~25 games a season in person, I don't want to sit through utter brick football, toxic atmospheres.

Coming off of Conte and watching teams like Everton, Brentford and others play against us, it just reinforces that is exactly what I don't want from my team.

Ange so far has given me what I need, good football more often than not, a side and manager I like, a belief that on any day, we can stand toe to toe (not try to smash and grab) with anyone, and over time, hopefully a chance at trophies ..

Right now, that's enough for me ...

As Ange said. Put ourselves in a situation where we have the chance to win trophies somewhat consistently rather than being desperate to win the next one we could potentially win (paraphrase obviously).

If we can do that while being fun, entertaining, create enthusiasm and a good vibe around the club I'm happy.

 

[braineclipse]

Not sure re Celtic, right now there is a few clear patterns

- Get wide (Werner/Johnson/Son/Deki), get to byline, cut back cross to penalty spot area for Richi to poach (that's been done many times over)
- There is our pass out the back play, where we try to suck the opposition forward (invite them to press back lines), quick pass to CM (Bissouma/Bentancur) who then breaks the line, typically by fast pass to front/wide
- Then classic press, win ball back, hit on transition

I think we need to see what Maddison brings to our first 11 specific to the park the bus scenario, even City often resorts to what KDB does outside of the classic horseshoe passing trying to draw defense out of position.

-Underlapping/inverting wingers combining with those wide players and advanced/advancing midfielders is a pretty big part of it too. Particularly Udogie does this really well, getting in and around the box inside the winger. Porro too, but a bit more often a little bit deeper or around the outside.

-Sarr in particular making good runs beyond the ball to create or exploit space is another one.

-Overloads to create space elsewhere. Often overloads centrally to create space wide. But also overload type situations, but the ability to get out of those tight spaces with purpose other than going wide. Maddison, Udogie, Bissouma (on form) in particular. Yeah it's tight, yeah they're sitting deep, let's just dribble past someone to get into the dangerous areas.

 

[Raziel]

-Underlapping/inverting wingers combining with those wide players and advanced/advancing midfielders is a pretty big part of it too. Particularly Udogie does this really well, getting in and around the box inside the winger. Porro too, but a bit more often a little bit deeper or around the outside.

-Sarr in particular making good runs beyond the ball to create or exploit space is another one.

-Overloads to create space elsewhere. Often overloads centrally to create space wide. But also overload type situations, but the ability to get out of those tight spaces with purpose other than going wide. Maddison, Udogie, Bissouma (on form) in particular. Yeah it's tight, yeah they're sitting deep, let's just dribble past someone to get into the dangerous areas.

Think that is tactics vs. patterns

- e.g. the wide player on byline cross into Richi is center of box is clearly a pattern
- Sarr going right to WB position or Udogie going into an inside attacker position is a tactic (to your point) of creating overloads and exploiting spaces

First one is training ground stuff where Ange will probably be tinkled if they don't do it x number of times a game, second one is the freedom the system gives the players to seize an opportunity (space in front of them).

Ange does a lot of things, from the formation swap of 4-3-3 -> 2-3-5 (in attack), to the role of FB's, the overloads, etc. The interesting part for me is how quick the players got it (or maybe they still have a lot of work to do to perfect it), 2 games in you could see what we were trying, I could call names but so many managers seem to need half a year to get a model in.

 

[NickTB]

For all those wondering about Ange’s croaky throat this may be the answer

Keyframe on Instagram: "Another incredible clip of Spurs manager Ange Postecoglou in his Celtic days 🤩 So much conviction and confidence in what he's saying 👏 (@celticfc) #angepostecoglou #spurs #footballcoaching #soccercoaching"

28K likes, 318 comments - keyframesports on January 30, 2024: "Another incredible clip of Spurs manager Ange Postecoglou in his Celtic days 🤩 So much conviction and confidence in what he's saying 👏 (@celticfc) #angepostecoglou #spurs #footballcoaching #soccercoaching".

www.instagram.com

 

[JerusalemMan]

"BLUE CARDS... DESTROYING THE GAME!" EMBARGOED PRESS CONFERENCE: Ange Postecoglou: Spurs v Brighton

www.youtube.com

He's such good value, especially the first few minutes

 

[Raziel]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1758489055245791721

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Methinks Ange needs to take another look at the way we play because we are not peak Barcelona so trying to bore teams to death with our passing will not work. Against Wolves we had 664 passes to their 214, and therein lies the rub. We were trying to walk the ball into the net when we lack guile and creativity.

 

[Mulletperm]

Sussing out our style of play isn't exactly rocket science. Sit back deep and soak it up, knowing full well we lack the creativity to get through and catch us on the break. The reliance on Van der Van's speed for cover is a massive worry.

Our style of play makes us scoring first even more important as it puts the impetus on the opposition to come onto us.

 

[tommysvr]

Sussing out our style of play isn't exactly rocket science. Sit back deep and soak it up, knowing full well we lack the creativity to get through and catch us on the break. The reliance on Van der Van's speed for cover is a massive worry.

Our style of play makes us scoring first even more important as it puts the impetus on the opposition to come onto us.

That’s hardly unique to Spurs. Most matches in the Premier League follow that style. It’s very rare to see two teams going both going at each other.

 

[DeanoAustin]

That’s hardly unique to Spurs. Most matches in the Premier League follow that style. It’s very rare to see two teams going both going at each other.

It’s not but I think the issue we have that others don’t is how aggressively we use the full backs which leaves massive space at the back and puts a lot of strain on the CBs as they’re often outnumbered on the counter.

We will have bumps in the road like today, I’m expecting more this season. I still stand by top 6 being success and top 8 being acceptable. Unfortunately for Ange, he had such a good start that top 6 now almost feels like failure and fans generally tend to (re) act on feeling rather than logic.

For me, Ange needs to tweak his approach and use of the full backs a bit. If we face a defensive team, it’s crucial we don’t give them easy chances on the counter. Ange has more than enough credit in the bank to attempt to fix whatever is wrong and a good enough track record to suggest that he stands a very good chance of doing it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It’s not but I think the issue we have that others don’t is how aggressively we use the full backs which leaves massive space at the back and puts a lot of strain on the CBs as they’re often outnumbered on the counter.

We will have bumps in the road like today, I’m expecting more this season. I still stand by top 6 being success and top 8 being acceptable. Unfortunately for Ange, he had such a good start that top 6 now almost feels like failure and fans generally tend to (re) act on feeling rather than logic.

For me, Ange needs to tweak his approach and use of the full backs a bit. If we face a defensive team, it’s crucial we don’t give them easy chances on the counter. Ange has more than enough credit in the bank to attempt to fix whatever is wrong and a good enough track record to suggest that he stands a very good chance of doing it.

City face this every week. They have massive quality going forward (and hence, win) BUT (and even yesterday v Chelsea) I often see them give up quality chances most weeks. It's the nature of counter attacks having more space and less defenders to deal with.

And City have done everything to improve this. Speedster in the back line, converting Stone to DCM, having one of the best DCMs in their ranks, playing multiple CHs across the back. Yet the chances come.

What is slightly bizarre with us, is earlier in the season I didn't feel we were vulnerable at all. People (pundits) were saying we were 'open' or the way we played was 'madness' but it didn't feel for one moment we were being 'run ragged' or our defence was 'all over the place'...and maybe that's because more of the games were to and fro...we weren't facing the deep block, counter attack that we may do now.

Going back to City, that's why we used to have their number, we were great on the counter and used to punish them. They (the almighty Pep) used to know this and still couldn't do f.ck all about it.

 

[Surfless]

Yesterday felt to me like a few too many players were off the boil as well as the issues of breaching wolves 6 at the back.

It's pretty fair to expect that Maddison, Son, Sarr and Bissouma have a way to go to get their rythym back after lay offs and international tournaments. It's far from being an excuse for what was a poor performance but it has to be factored in.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

City face this every week. They have massive quality going forward (and hence, win) BUT (and even yesterday v Chelsea) I often see them give up quality chances most weeks. It's the nature of counter attacks having more space and less defenders to deal with.

And City have done everything to improve this. Speedster in the back line, converting Stone to DCM, having one of the best DCMs in their ranks, playing multiple CHs across the back. Yet the chances come.

What is slightly bizarre with us, is earlier in the season I didn't feel we were vulnerable at all. People (pundits) were saying we were 'open' or the way we played was 'madness' but it didn't feel for one moment we were being 'run ragged' or our defence was 'all over the place'...and maybe that's because more of the games were to and fro...we weren't facing the deep block, counter attack that we may do now.

Going back to City, that's why we used to have their number, we were great on the counter and used to punish them. They (the almighty Pep) used to know this and still couldn't do f.ck all about it.

It’s hard because if your playing to win rather than playing to not lose you game is different
Wolves walk away with a draw yesterday and they are happy. We are having kittens because we lost and they think they have won the world cup
City, like us, give away high percentage chances when you get them. It’s the high risk, high reward football
Unless you have a screen in front of defence as good as rice (we don’t and city don’t) you will have this issue
Teams convert chances against us

 

[jrh]

City face this every week. They have massive quality going forward (and hence, win) BUT (and even yesterday v Chelsea) I often see them give up quality chances most weeks. It's the nature of counter attacks having more space and less defenders to deal with.

And City have done everything to improve this. Speedster in the back line, converting Stone to DCM, having one of the best DCMs in their ranks, playing multiple CHs across the back. Yet the chances come.

What is slightly bizarre with us, is earlier in the season I didn't feel we were vulnerable at all. People (pundits) were saying we were 'open' or the way we played was 'madness' but it didn't feel for one moment we were being 'run ragged' or our defence was 'all over the place'...and maybe that's because more of the games were to and fro...we weren't facing the deep block, counter attack that we may do now.

Going back to City, that's why we used to have their number, we were great on the counter and used to punish them. They (the almighty Pep) used to know this and still couldn't do f.ck all about it.

Watching Chelsea last night was painful because it showed me Poch is getting a handle on the situation there. It was basically a mirror of us vs City under Poch's reign. We always seemed to have their number.

They were disciplined, brave and hungry. Annoyingly impressive.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Watching Chelsea last night was painful because it showed me Poch is getting a handle on the situation there. It was basically a mirror of us vs City under Poch's reign. We always seemed to have their number.

They were disciplined, brave and hungry. Annoyingly impressive.

But you can do that against city as they are the most predictable team in the league… more so than us

 

[jrh]

But you can do that against city as they are the most predictable team in the league… more so than us

Pragmatism vs Dogmatism. Chelsea went from a four at the back to five midway through the second half, constantly adapted their patterns during the game and probably deserved more.

Conversely City were all in on their plan and didn't waver. Fascinating watch.

With Ange we're now in the City 'dogmatic' mold, after years of pragmatism and flexibility, a lot of us fans have to adjust I guess.

 

[P.D.]

I'd really like to see him tighten the defence, the top teams have mean defences that don't give much away so even on days the attack isn't firing 1 or 2 goals will win them the game. Read on the BBC today that we've kept 1 clean sheet in our last 16 games, that's just not good enough. Even with the injuries we had for a period we should be doing better.

 

[jrh]

I'd really like to see him tighten the defence, the top teams have mean defences that don't give much away so even on days the attack isn't firing 1 or 2 goals will win them the game. Read on the BBC today that we've kept 1 clean sheet in our last 16 games, that's just not good enough. Even with the injuries we had for a period we should be doing better.

For discussion: Ange's first season at Celtic. I count 23 clean sheets and 42 wins in 60 games played. 11 losses. 70% wins.

Second season: 19 clean sheets and 41 wins in 53 games played. 7 losses. 77% wins.

Don't think you're ever going to get loads of clean sheets under Ange. When his sides win, just nature that half the time (or more) they will also concede.

 

[jrh]

This season we've won 15 in 28 games played. 8 losses. 6 cleansheets total.

The bigger concern than keeping cleansheets right now is the 53% win ratio...

 

[Legohamster]

Yesterday felt to me like a few too many players were off the boil as well as the issues of breaching wolves 6 at the back.

It's pretty fair to expect that Maddison, Son, Sarr and Bissouma have a way to go to get their rythym back after lay offs and international tournaments. It's far from being an excuse for what was a poor performance but it has to be factored in.

No issue with this, I agree.

But he sat on his hands till the 70th minute before making a change, we have players on the bench now