Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[billyiddo]

So if we were 8th and playing a way you deem acceptable, you wouldn't be moaning? Righto

Why do you think otherwise?

 

[Mikey10]

Really, really need to have patience and give some time. Let's not forget other managers people are now lauding, and their starts....

Klopp
8th
4th
4th
2nd

Arteta
8th
8th
5th
2nd

Ferguson
11th
2nd
12th
13th

They all signed key players for very big sums of money. That’s what made the real difference each time.

 

[Mulletperm]

Really interesting presser.
A few key takeaways:
-sticking to philosophy is legitimate until it's not, then it's on me to change it
-maybe the PL is too far, we'll see
-progress for next season is playing the philosophy consistently
-progress is players developing
-recognising the reality that Spurs always fall at the last hurdle and changing that
-recognising we are doing a complete 180 on style

There is a clear undertone that Levy is prepared to stick by a rebuild, on the Arteta, Klopp angle.

Everything above is what we'd have expected in this season if we'd have written it down in July/August.
We were also expecting inconsistencies - but probably more week to week; instead we've got two distinct patches.

The end of that was really important - reminding the players that when it gets tough there isnt a release valve; you have to fight through it and grow through it to get somewhere.

You missed one mate. Progress is changing the personnel; players going out and players coming in.

 

[billyiddo]

They all signed key players for very big sums of money. That’s what made the real difference each time.

Over the last 5 years Arsenal have spent only about 100m euros more than us whilst we've spent considerably more than Liverpool - we can match teams soending nowadays but we're in a position that means we have had to bring in many players to overhaul the squad where they have been able to add a couple of pieces of quality to an existing squad the manager is happy with. I see no reason to think that once we have the squad set we will not be in the mix for top level players.

 

[Mulletperm]

They all signed key players for very big sums of money. That’s what made the real difference each time.

We have brought in a fair few pricey players

Johnson - £47m
Maddison - £40m
Porro - £40m
VdV - upto £40m+
Kulu - £25
Dragusin - £26m
Vicario - £17m

I realise those aren't huge transfer fees, but it isn't small fry really. I think our problem is existing players on big wages who just don't fit Ange's style of play.

 

[tommysvr]

I like his approach, and while there are question marks about whether it will ultimately work in the PL

Why are there doubts though? What’s so dramatically different from what the teams above us do? I’m not talking about the results and performances, I’m talking about the approach. High press, dominate the ball, overload teams…

I can only assume the doubts are on Ange, not his approach, because he’s an Aussie who’s ‘only’ worked in Australia, Japan and Scotland.

Edit: to be clear, I understand you’re generally positive on Ange but just see this sort of thing said about his approach quite a bit.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They all signed key players for very big sums of money. That’s what made the real difference each time.

No they key is they didn’t do everything in one go
They built a squad then the team
And it took time
They even brought in players and sold them under the same manager

 

[Mikey10]

Over the last 5 years Arsenal have spent only about 100m euros more than us whilst we've spent considerably more than Liverpool - we can match teams soending nowadays but we're in a position that means we have had to bring in many players to overhaul the squad where they have been able to add a couple of pieces of quality to an existing squad the manager is happy with. I see no reason to think that once we have the squad set we will not be in the mix for top level players.

I suppose the reason is that we’ve historically not done it.

We have brought in a fair few pricey players

Johnson - £47m
Maddison - £40m
Porro - £40m
VdV - upto £40m+
Kulu - £25
Dragusin - £26m
Vicario - £17m

I realise those aren't huge transfer fees, but it isn't small fry really. I think our problem is existing players on big wages who just don't fit Ange's style of play.

It’s not anywhere near the money Liverpool paid for the key signings of Allison and VDV, nor Arsenal for Rice. Both those teams also took hits on getting unwanted players out, at times paying up lucrative contracts to move the squad forward. Will our owners be brave enough to make these key moves? I’m not convinced.

No they key is they didn’t do everything in one go
They built a squad then the team
And it took time
They even brought in players and sold them under the same manager

Indeed, but the key moments were the vital signings for big money (see Allison, VDV and Rice above).

 

[Grays_1890]

Shots fired by Ange, probably the most open and honest a manager has been without making it "why me". Now its down to the club as a whole to work it out because the nature of his words mean those players need to go or they stink up the place, even if he has not named them, they will all know who they are.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I suppose the reason is that we’ve historically not done it.

It’s not anywhere near the money Liverpool paid for the key signings of Allison and VDV, nor Arsenal for Rice. Both those teams also took hits on getting unwanted players out, at times paying up lucrative contracts to move the squad forward. Will our owners be brave enough to make these key moves? I’m not convinced.

Indeed, but the key moments were the vital signings for big money (see Allison, VDV and Rice above).

Yeah
But not in year 1
That’s year 3 or 4
I’d argue this summer for us were better off with improving squad quality to a level that can play Ange ball rather than first 11 quality
We have seen the first 11 (whatever team that is) play well enough to do something
But the depth issues remains because of the style of play

 

[Mulletperm]

I suppose the reason is that we’ve historically not done it.

It’s not anywhere near the money Liverpool paid for the key signings of Allison and VDV, nor Arsenal for Rice. Both those teams also took hits on getting unwanted players out, at times paying up lucrative contracts to move the squad forward. Will our owners be brave enough to make these key moves? I’m not convinced.

Indeed, but the key moments were the vital signings for big money (see Allison, VDV and Rice above).

Van Dijk was I think in Klopp's third year. Rice in Arteta's fourth or fifth?

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah
But not in year 1
That’s year 3 or 4
I’d argue this summer for us were better off with improving squad quality to a level that can play Ange ball rather than first 11 quality
We have seen the first 11 (whatever team that is) play well enough to do something
But the depth issues remains because of the style of play

Improve the first 11. Drop those players to the bench. Get rid of those not good enough. Whole squad is improved.

 

[elltrev]

All abooooaaaard, tooot tooooot.

Fantastic press conference. I’d encourage everyone to take 15 minutes to watch that.

(On a separate note, what press conference was it? I’d already watched a different one, which I’m pretty sure was the Liverpool pre-match press conference?)

 

[jrh]

Fantastic press conference. I’d encourage everyone to take 15 minutes to watch that.

(On a separate note, what press conference was it? I’d already watched a different one, which I’m pretty sure was the Liverpool pre-match press conference?)

Same one, but it's the embargoed section that gets released after 10pm.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Improve the first 11. Drop those players to the bench. Get rid of those not good enough. Whole squad is improved.

I agree
Once you have players who can play Ange ball
Right now he will be looking at selling first 11 players too

 

[Robbo]

Why are there doubts though? What’s so dramatically different from what the teams above us do? I’m not talking about the results and performances, I’m talking about the approach. High press, dominate the ball, overload teams…

I can only assume the doubts are on Ange, not his approach, because he’s an Aussie who’s ‘only’ worked in Australia, Japan and Scotland.

Edit: to be clear, I understand you’re generally positive on Ange but just see this sort of thing said about his approach quite a bit.

I don't think it's him being an Aussie, rather that his pedigree and success has come in Scotland and Japan, where the overall quality is on a completely different level to the PL. Also because we've been defensively poor, and have looked tactically naive in quite a few games this season, with Ange refusing to change his approach.

I think it comes down to what he said in that excellent PK about everyone buying into his philosophy and trusting the process - I personally do, but I can see how those who don't have doubts about whether he will eventually make us successful.

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree
Once you have players who can play Ange ball
Right now he will be looking at selling first 11 players too

Nobody has money to buy. Half the teams in the prem are in trouble with psr. Most the teams in europe are skint. The handful of teams thst could afford our players wages probably don't want them.

Rodon, tanganga and a couple of others might be sold. Hojbjerg too.

The others?

 

[billyiddo]

We have brought in a fair few pricey players

Johnson - £47m
Maddison - £40m
Porro - £40m
VdV - upto £40m+
Kulu - £25
Dragusin - £26m
Vicario - £17m

I realise those aren't huge transfer fees, but it isn't small fry really. I think our problem is existing players on big wages who just don't fit Ange's style of play.

Those fees are pretty standard for your top 6 squads tbf - if we want to push on eventually we will need to be in the mix for the 70 - 100m players (unless of course we can pull off signing that level of player before they establish themselves at mid level clubs) that'll be possible, but only once we're in a position where we can get away with making minimal signings (as an example, if we got to a place similar to where we were at the halfway point of Pochs time)

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Feels like we are at a bit of a crossroad with Ange, we either support him fully in the summer and give him the platform to succeed, or fail to back him and give him the platform to fail.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nobody has money to buy. Half the teams in the prem are in trouble with psr. Most the teams in europe are skint. The handful of teams thst could afford our players wages probably don't want them.

Rodon, tanganga and a couple of others might be sold. Hojbjerg too.

The others?

Wait and see
You said last summer no one was buying anyone
Club find ways
And clubs are stupid too