Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[fernadez]

In the south the wanting us the lose was mostly just banter. Once the game kicked off the fans were behind the team as usual.

All the unhappiness and moaning was people questioning why we never lined up and put in that sort of performance months ago.

 

[tommysvr]

I doubt his dad ever wanted his team to loose. He is shocked that fans of the team he manages were happy to loose. The fans were singing are you watching scum what does that say to the manager & players ii wouldn't be surprised if he walked

Can you imagine Nicholson or Burkinshaw allowing anything but a win against city & they both understood the rivalry. I reckon both would let the fans know exactly how they felt As Ange has done

no idea about Burkinshaw and Bill Nic. But I specifically remember Ange saying it’s not his job to tell us how to feel.

 

[DubaiSpur]

He’s not right though. It was a brick position for fans to be in and he has to appreciate that even if he doesn’t like it. Does he think it would have been any different with Man U/Liverpool, Rangers/Celtic, Madrid/Barca?

It would have been exactly the fudging same. Football is tribal and for a lot of people, a lot of it is hating your rivals almost as much as you love your club.

Ange is being a bit tone deaf here.

I think he's right that the club doesn't have a winning mentality. He isn't the first to say it, nor will he be the last. Before him, Conte said it too. Poch before him.

But Conte put the blame precisely where it needed to be put - '20 years here the owner, and they win nothing'.

Ange seems to be blaming the fans for it. Which is a little bizarre, given we don't have control over him losing games as limply as he has done. The fans don't make you refuse to coach set pieces and concede dozens as a result, or lose 5 games out of the last 6. You did that, all on your own - if there's a losing mentality here, you are perpetuating it as much as anyone else.

He needs to take ownership of what he's saying, imo. Blaming the fans alone is a cheap cop out since we can't influence the club as much as he can, or the owners can. You're right we don't have a winning mentality Ange, but dig a little deeper into why that is.

 

[spurspinter1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790497791271182359

Ange Posteconte has emerged!

I wonder if he feels stitched up, in the pre match he stated that no Spurs fan would want us to lose. Whether it's right or wrong morally he was shown up to be thoroughly misguided in his take on it and I don't think he liked it.

It would be hypocritical for me to have a problem with him speaking his mind on this but it seems a bit unnecessary. Focus on improving the team, that's what you can do. As folks on here have said, you can't affect how people feel about the greater circumstances of the game.

Weird as fudge last night, the atmosphere of a pre season game in a potentially title defining match at the end of the season. I do think Ange was blindsided by it, and possibly hasn't reacted in the best way. Just crack on, get the result against Sheffield and 95% of reasonable fans would be happy with the season.

 

[tommysvr]

Well said. I feel I've learned a lot about us this week. I also feel I've learned a lot about how you're viewed if you don't hate Arsenal more than you love Tottenham. Sad times...FWIW, I've been to over 35 derbies home and away in my life. I saw the 5-0 defeat and then the 5-0 win several years later. I was at the 4-4 when some left the stadium at 4-2 down because they couldn't bear being there at the final whislt'...my thought was if we want the players to show up, then how about WE show up? I've found it baffling...and before anyone feels they want to lecture me on rivalries and 'not understanding them' save your (computer) breath. I get it.

If anyone gives you grief for wanting Spurs to win, that’s stupid. I personally have absolutely no problem with anyone who wanted that and didn’t really care about the potential affect on Arsenal.

But on the other side of the coin, anyone who gives me grief for hoping to lose and now enjoying the fact that it potentially kills Arsenal’s chances is just as stupid.

There is no right or wrong in this situation. It’s a brick situation to be in, hopefully it never happens again.

 

[DeanoAustin]

In the south the wanting us the lose was mostly just banter. Once the game kicked off the fans were behind the team as usual.

All the unhappiness and moaning was people questioning why we never lined up and put in that sort of performance months ago.

East Upper was the same. There were no celebrations when they scored, save for one macaron, and no one cheering City. We were all conflicted but behind Spurs.

I guess what’s harder to rationalise is the very audible chant of “are you watching Arsenal” after we conceded. That was more than a handful of macarons and was embarrassing.

I don’t blame people for feeling conflicted last night. I know I was but getting any joy from Spurs conceding and expressing it like that…I just don’t get it.

 

[Mcfee]

He's the one that seems unable to handle reality. The simple fact is that he put the club in a situation where fans had no choice but to choose the least-worst option.

Blaming us for doing that is deflecting from the reality that his team, coached by him, put us in that situation by constantly losing these past few weeks. Feels a little like he doesn't want to face the truth.

As a manager, if you can't handle fans seeking their solace after your team folded against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, West Ham, Wolves, Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, it doesn't speak highly of your ability to reflect on your mistakes. Fans aren't to blame here. Focus inward, Ange.

If we had been 4 points ahead of Villa coming into last night’s game do you think the fans attitude would have been somehow different?

 

[tommysvr]

I'm done with all of this fudging stupidity. I am actually appalled by all of it. I've spent several days seeing macarons telling me that because I want Tottenham to win a football match I am a clam who 'doesn't understand rivalries'...fudging over it. And then to see people bagging on Ange Postecoglu? Maybe we don't deserve him, maybe we deserve some media savvy trumper who tells everyone what they want to hear and takes short term steps to protect himself as opposed to trying to do something for this football club long-term.

Calm down and read what I wrote again

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm done with all of this fudging stupidity. I am actually appalled by all of it. I've spent several days seeing macarons telling me that because I want Tottenham to win a football match I am a clam who 'doesn't understand rivalries'...fudging over it. And then to see people bagging on Ange Postecoglu? Maybe we don't deserve him, maybe we deserve some media savvy trumper who tells everyone what they want to hear and takes short term steps to protect himself as opposed to trying to do something for this football club long-term.

The fan base isn't a monolith and I'm not sure the "maybe we don't deserve him" because of a bit of banter at a game we were going to lose anyway is the right call.

I do think the impact that fans have on the game at the stadium is somewhat overstated, we went toe to toe with City and a few key moments cost us but it was on the whole a good performance, even with lukewarm support that was often hilariously conflicted.

A couple of people doing the poznan isn't something to be appalled about, 5 losses in 6 is the real problem. It just seems like a chance to be faux outraged / surprised at football fans acting like, well, football fans. To be clear I wanted us to win that game last night but whether a fan wants a team to win or lose is of little consequence to the outcome. The fallout with Ange versus the fan base displaying a fractured relationship is a bigger problem which needn't have arisen, what's positive to gain from it?

 

[DubaiSpur]

I'm done with all of this fudging stupidity. I am actually appalled by all of it. I've spent several days seeing macarons telling me that because I want Tottenham to win a football match I am a clam who 'doesn't understand rivalries'...fudging over it. And then to see people bagging on Ange Postecoglu? Maybe we don't deserve him, maybe we deserve some media savvy trumper who tells everyone what they want to hear and takes short term steps to protect himself as opposed to trying to do something for this football club long-term.

Postecoglou *is* a media savvy trumper, whatever that means. It's just that people are noticing his hypocrisy a little bit.

When we limply lost the previous 4 out of 5 games, his line was that the result wasn't as important as playing the way he wanted us to. He further embellished this by saying set pieces weren't his priority because in the long term it wouldn't bring us success - he essentially wrote us off this season and in the short term.

So, it's fine for him to not want to put winning above principles. But suddenly, when the fans copy him and decide winning isn't the most important thing, he gets snippy at us. Why should we prioritize winning even if it hurts us, when he doesn't?

I don't think there's any real Ange Out feeling at Spurs, and rightly so. He's earned another year here and some backing this summer. But he needs to introspect on this winning mentality he wants us to have, because he's not without blame for us lacking it.

 

[markysimmo]

Ange is angry I get that
Maybe if him and the team hadn't had been so abysmal for the last 6 games before we might have already had 4 in the bag and it would have been hugely different
Remember his selections/tactics have been far from great in that period
Why not change it up like he did 6 games ago, it clearly worked and could have led to differing situations against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool

 

[thfcsteff]

I've deleted most of my posts in this thread. They have truthfully been a waste of time and space.

 

[Legohamster]

I think he may wake up this morning and regret those comments and digs at the fans.

Even those as myself that haven't been impressed with a number of things this season understood he will be/should be starting next season and be backed.

He's not been under any pressure despite the appalling recorded breaking run we've been on with the same issues have come up over and over again.

Once you start going in on fans, that goodwill can go, it only tends to go one way and quickly.

 

[scaramanga]

He’s had a pretty terrible 48 hours imo when it comes to his interactions with the media and his understanding of the fans’ position.

Weird given he was at Celtic; intense rivalry is the one thing you’d think he’d definitely understand.

A rivalry between two Mickey Mouse clubs where the stakes could barely be lower.

The only thing there is about that league is that rivalry. He's never had to balance that with actual football before.

 

[DubaiSpur]

@thfcsteff , dunno where your post went mate, but one thing you said interests me. You say that we shouldn't imply that he doesn't want to win games of football.

The problem with that is, he has said exactly this, himself, multiple times. Remember when he said we could win without playing well and it would mean less than if we lost but he saw foundations/things he wanted to see in our play?

Winning isn't everything to him. He has principles he is willing to sacrifice winning for. He believes it will make us better in the longer term.

Which is fine - the fans have accepted this as the price of progress. But then, they cannot be blamed for doing exactly what he does - putting other things above winning at all costs.

Also, just saying, I wish I saw some of this anger from him when he lost 4 games out of the last five while the fans were supporting him and the team the whole way. Him only getting snippy after we lost the 5th game of the last 6 isn't a good look.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm fully behind Ange. But those comments I'm not a big fan of. A bit cryptic, not answering follow up questions. Possibly less understanding of fan reactions than he's been in the past. Imo either call it out or say it directly.

That being said it's been a strange couple of days. We just lost out on CL football. It's been a rough couple of months too. I can understand him not being as composed as he usually is right after that game. Imo ultimately not a big deal, and he probably has a point in there somewhere that at least feels valid to him.

Will be interesting to see if he speaks about this again. I imagine he will be asked about it, when a manager calls the foundations at the club fragile that tends to be asked about again. Hope he can clarify his point a bit at least.

But again, fully behind Ange. It's not that big a deal. Let's take what we can from the performance into the next game and into the preseason.

 

[billyiddo]

Probably tinkled he's lost a nice CL qualification bonus

 

[braineclipse]

@thfcsteff , dunno where your post went mate, but one thing you said interests me. You say that we shouldn't imply that he doesn't want to win games of football.

The problem with that is, he has said exactly this, himself, multiple times. Remember when he said we could win without playing well and it would mean less than if we lost but he saw foundations/things he wanted to see in our play?

Winning isn't everything to him. He has principles he is willing to sacrifice winning for. He believes it will make us better in the longer term.

Which is fine - the fans have accepted this as the price of progress. But then, they cannot be blamed for doing exactly what he does - putting other things above winning at all costs.

Also, just saying, I wish I saw some of this anger from him when he lost 4 games out of the last five while the fans were supporting him and the team the whole way. Him only getting snippy after we lost the 5th game of the last 6 isn't a good look.

Accepting that innstilling a style of play even at the cost of some short term results is good is not the same as hoping we lose.

I think we've seen anger from him recently too. In games, in press conferences. Not quite like this, but certainly some of that anger has been there.

 

[Surfless]

A rivalry between two Mickey Mouse clubs where the stakes could barely be lower.

The only thing there is about that league is that rivalry. He's never had to balance that with actual football before.

It's not mickey mouse to their fans, it's their world. Same as for us. Which is at the centre of this. People feel differently about things, and have different opinions of the same thing. It's what makes the world go round.

So Ange had a different view to those wanting city to win last night, so? It's right that he take that view, he's the manager, not a lifelong fan. His job is to win today not bask/sulk at the success/failures of the past.

This whole episode is essentially pointless as a discussion, because we all have different views which clash. We didn't throw the game, we actually scared city and that is progress in the short term.

 

[billyiddo]

It's not mickey mouse to their fans, it's their world. Same as for us. Which is at the centre of this. People feel differently about things, and have different opinions of the same thing. It's what makes the world go round.

So Ange had a different view to those wanting city to win last night, so? It's right that he take that view, he's the manager, not a lifelong fan. His job is to win today not bask/sulk at the success/failures of the past.

This whole episode is essentially pointless as a discussion, because we all have different views which clash. We didn't throw the game, we actually scared city and that is progress in the short term.

I'm quite confused by the managers reaction tbqh - the game & performance set it up for him to talk about how well we played, that should be his focus - quite easy for him to say that he understands why some of the fans were/are conflicted about the situation but that he & his players are professionals here to do a job.