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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Roland Beurre said:
Dunno. If the PL is won by a financially doped club and the European Champions plus Runners-Up cup is won by a financially doped club, will they throw more money at it? They would, I expect, but probably not enough.

Arteta could complain about level playing fields but all clubs that don't have a banknote printing press in the basement are looking for that wizard of a manager who can overcome the odds.
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So he would become the master in not winning and the club keep on backing him… I don’t see it
 
harr1984 said:
They don't need an excuse - they are up against two financially doped clubs, and the best two historical clubs in England and are by far the second best and extremely close to City. It's hardly the failure some people on here are making it out to be just because they have spent money. If it was us doing the same you and others would be saying how we can hold our heads high at taking City so close twice in the league, and what a great job our boss is doing but because it's the Goons of course it's a different story....
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It’s reminiscent of what we were like under Poch
Except he has had more money spent
It has to lead to something doesn’t it… ???
I don’t know who has does it’s a failure but again… the measure of success is trophies and that was always used against Poch so it has to be applicable to others
 
braineclipse said:
Arteta first had a bit over half a season, finishing 8th. First full season finishing 8th. Second full season finishing 5th. Then 2nd. I think I got that right.

Essentially 3 years into him being there they were showing title challenging form.

If Ange "survives" missing CL two years in a row, gets to start next season even if we finish outside the top 4 this season there's not that much of a difference between the two situations imo.

Arteta too was on "borrowed time" after the second full season outside the top 4. But then got the necessary consistency to no longer be on borrowed time.

I think those decisions should be about a lot more than just that, and I think they are.
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I don’t think Ange would get away with finishing 8th twice and then 5th, even though it is steady progress. It’s missing CL 3 years running and I don’t think Levy would accept that performance.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t think Ange would get away with finishing 8th twice and then 5th, even though it is steady progress. It’s missing CL 3 years running and I don’t think Levy would accept that performance.
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I think there are a couple of dynamics here.

Firstly, Ange is only on £5m a year. Our previous high profile managers were on somewhere between £10-15m a year and when it came of d-day it was a costly affair getting rid of them. Ange is in the second year of a four year contract so to pay his severance is very manageable.

The other big factor is that it shouldn't really be Levy's job anymore to decide whether to hire, retain or fire our managers. Scott Munn runs football operations and it is really down to him to decide whether it is time required or a new guy.

Personally, I think if we finish trophyless and in 5th or 6th again then Ange will be safe. However, if he doesn't start his 3rd season well then I think Munn would be collaborating with his boss about a change.
 
not sure how to feel about this but perhaps a new start is best for every one considering that we've never really had a fully fit and competitive squad for a long time. Looks like we strengthened with two incoming - Brett (Brighton) and Davies (West Ham):
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At Tottenham, [Brett] replaces Geoff Scott, who stepped down as Head of Medicine and Sports Science last month after 20 years with the club.
Reporting into Brett will be new Head of Sports Science Nick Davies, who left West Ham at the end of last season. The Welshman is hugely experienced, having also worked for Charlton, Birmingham City, Norwich City and West Brom.
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harr1984 said:
They don't need an excuse - they are up against two financially doped clubs, and the best two historical clubs in England and are by far the second best and extremely close to City. It's hardly the failure some people on here are making it out to be just because they have spent money. If it was us doing the same you and others would be saying how we can hold our heads high at taking City so close twice in the league, and what a great job our boss is doing but because it's the Goons of course it's a different story....
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Didn’t we used to pat ourselves on the back and say how we got more points than any other team over 2 seasons during the Leicester and Chelsea seasons? The fact that we didn’t win the league in either of those seasons wasn’t important.
 
Muttley said:
I think there are a couple of dynamics here.

Firstly, Ange is only on £5m a year. Our previous high profile managers were on somewhere between £10-15m a year and when it came of d-day it was a costly affair getting rid of them. Ange is in the second year of a four year contract so to pay his severance is very manageable.

The other big factor is that it shouldn't really be Levy's job anymore to decide whether to hire, retain or fire our managers. Scott Munn runs football operations and it is really down to him to decide whether it is time required or a new guy.

Personally, I think if we finish trophyless and in 5th or 6th again then Ange will be safe. However, if he doesn't start his 3rd season well then I think Munn would be collaborating with his boss about a change.
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The appointment of Munn hopefully means Levy is taking a backseat to the football side where he really doesn’t excel. And by extension hopefully that means our managers will get more time even if they don’t hit their targets.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Didn’t we used to pat ourselves on the back and say how we got more points than any other team over 2 seasons during the Leicester and Chelsea seasons? The fact that we didn’t win the league in either of those seasons wasn’t important.
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Yep but we improved
And we were better
Just didn’t win anything
That’s how it works now :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yep but we improved
And we were better
Just didn’t win anything
That’s how it works now :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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We improved for 2 seasons then we gradually got worse for various reasons. They’ve been steadily progressing every season Arteta has been there. Let’s hope they don’t go further this year because that means they likely win the league.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We improved for 2 seasons then we gradually got worse for various reasons. They’ve been steadily progressing every season Arteta has been there. Let’s hope they don’t go further this year because that means they likely win the league.
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They have to win the league for any improvement
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They have to win the league for any improvement
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If they get 98 points and finish 2nd then it would be hard to argue that is a failure. At some point yes I agree they do have to get over the line but they’ve not failed. If you’re being ultra critical you could say they should have seen the job through in 22/23 when Emirates Marketing Project had an off year in the league by their standards but even then they still managed 89 points and probably would have amassed more if they really needed the points.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If they get 98 points and finish 2nd then it would be hard to argue that is a failure. At some point yes I agree they do have to get over the line but they’ve not failed. If you’re being ultra critical you could say they should have seen the job through in 22/23 when Emirates Marketing Project had an off year in the league by their standards but even then they still managed 89 points and probably would have amassed more if they really needed the points.
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More points means an improvement
No trophies though means it hasn’t been a success
It’s not relative anymore because as you say, when city have an off season, that’s your chance
The season they were so far ahead they had no excuse
Last what they could have won if if they didn’t okay for a draw away at city
 
I’m done with this guy, we’ve been brick for almost a year now.

It only getting worse.

Am I going early? Yeah, probably, but I can’t see it going any other way from here.

Just my opinion. YMMV.
 
I'm not sure where we go if he doesn't work out. I've rarely watched Spurs live under him but when I do the play just seems passive with little to no attacking flair as was the case today (albeit against a very good organised side).
 
Baleforce said:
I’m done with this guy, we’ve been brick for almost a year now.

It only getting worse.

Am I going early? Yeah, probably, but I can’t see it going any other way from here.

Just my opinion. YMMV.
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I feel you, but it is what it is mate. We aren't sacking him unless we're in the bottom half, and we will pick up just enough wins to stay in and around the top six.

He's better than the rough majority of coaches in this league, and that's what we'll get out of him - better than the rough majority of sides, with the occasional humbling when he comes up against a smarter manager or a better team, of which there are maybe 7 or so in this league.

Club seems to have accepted it, so it is what it is.
 
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