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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

parklane1 said:
I wish i could say that i am surprised by some of the reactions sadly i am not the truth is that there are a lot of fans in todays game who expect everything to happen overnight and if it does not then they question the manager. As you say its only 4 games into the season and there are fans who are up in arms at the results.

Sadly there are some fans who are far to quick to judge our performances, as you say IF the luck had gone our way we could have at least three wins instead of just the one. As you say a lot of OTT.
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I think questioning is fair but, like you say, some of the reactions have been well OTT.

What kind of gets on my nerves a bit is holding Ange or Levy to an impossible standard. We've been around for 142 years. We've won 17 trophies (between the league, FA Cup and League Cup and Europe). That's one trophy every 8 years which was about 1 in 7.4 years before ENIC arrived.

We've never been prolific, we've never been perennial title challengers. Of course, we should aspire to better but people need to be realistic about where we are, where we've come from and what we are competing against.
 
parklane1 said:
I wish i could say that i am surprised by some of the reactions sadly i am not the truth is that there are a lot of fans in todays game who expect everything to happen overnight and if it does not then they question the manager. As you say its only 4 games into the season and there are fans who are up in arms at the results.

Sadly there are some fans who are far to quick to judge our performances, as you say IF the luck had gone our way we could have at least three wins instead of just the one. As you say a lot of OTT.
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We also live in a world of soundbites and lies where snippets are taking from interviews and twisted which now become so called fact. Its up to the fans to work out what is what, unfortunately some don't want to go to the effort to do so aka the set piece nonsense which Ange addressed again at the weekend
 
Grays_1890 said:
We also live in a world of soundbites and lies where snippets are taking from interviews and twisted which now become so called fact. Its up to the fans to work out what is what, unfortunately some don't want to go to the effort to do so aka the set piece nonsense which Ange addressed again at the weekend
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I'm always amazed from reading message boards and social media how taken in people are by the media spin rather than what's said. As one example, I've read several articles saying Ange "raged" and "fumed" at the interviewer about the second season thing. He didn't at all. He was quite firm but he just stated a fact. Personally, I think he might have been better answering it a different way but he wasn't emotional at all and he didn't rage or fume.

That sort of brick and the posting a made up quote next to a photo of someone seems to be believed by so many people. I saw one last week attributed to Eni Aluko where she was quoted as saying "Women should be playing in the Premier League". People jumped all over it and called her all sorts.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think questioning is fair but, like you say, some of the reactions have been well OTT.

What kind of gets on my nerves a bit is holding Ange or Levy to an impossible standard. We've been around for 142 years. We've won 17 trophies (between the league, FA Cup and League Cup and Europe). That's one trophy every 8 years which was about 1 in 7.4 years before ENIC arrived.

We've never been prolific, we've never been perennial title challengers. Of course, we should aspire to better but people need to be realistic about where we are, where we've come from and what we are competing against.
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I have always gone to games over the years and like most fans hoped to win them. Your point is spot on and i do despair at some of the reactions of fans [ not all of them] its as if we do not win then there is something wrong with [ take your pick here] the players, the ref, the away supporters, and especially in some cases Levy.

Of course we ALL want to win but as you show our history is more filled with dissapointment then glory, I go to games for the crack, the travel, the company and many other things and allthough i want us to win our history as a club shows that we have not has much over the years.

Sadly [ imo anyway] that has changed and there are so many in todays game who can do nothing but slag our players, manager, board etc,etc. Do not get me wrong i hate losing games and have a few words about the performances of some players often but that is reaction to the game more then the full picture.

I love my club and always will and i hope some day we will start winning things again [ i have seen us do so many times over the years and i hope so once again] but we are where we are.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I'm always amazed from reading message boards and social media how taken in people are by the media spin rather than what's said. As one example, I've read several articles saying Ange "raged" and "fumed" at the interviewer about the second season thing. He didn't at all. He was quite firm but he just stated a fact. Personally, I think he might have been better answering it a different way but he wasn't emotional at all and he didn't rage or fume.

That sort of brick and the posting a made up quote next to a photo of someone seems to be believed by so many people. I saw one last week attributed to Eni Aluko where she was quoted as saying "Women should be playing in the Premier League". People jumped all over it and called her all sorts.
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Its so fudging weird too. We should really be more siege about our club but we seem to fall for the lies and the spin against us, when we likely should be pushing back against it.
 
parklane1 said:
I have always gone to games over the years and like most fans hoped to win them. Your point is spot on and i do despair at some of the reactions of fans [ not all of them] its as if we do not win then there is something wrong with [ take your pick here] the players, the ref, the away supporters, and especially in some cases Levy.

Of course we ALL want to win but as you show our history is more filled with dissapointment then glory, I go to games for the crack, the travel, the company and many other things and allthough i want us to win our history as a club shows that we have not has much over the years.

Sadly [ imo anyway] that has changed and there are so many in todays game who can do nothing but slag our players, manager, board etc,etc. Do not get me wrong i hate losing games and have a few words about the performances of some players often but that is reaction to the game more then the full picture.

I love my club and always will and i hope some day we will start winning things again [ i have seen us do so many times over the years and i hope so once again] but we are where we are.
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My first memory of Spurs was 87 and vague images of Waddle, but my dad saying "we will always be a cup side at best" and it stuck. From then to today he was right and that was through 3 owners.

Yes we should want better, yes I want to win, but said it till I am blue in the face, I know the Spurs I chose and the Spurs chose for me and it wasn't the dynasty of United, Liverpool, Leeds, Everton or Arsenal and I have always been at peace with it.

Goes back to my earlier comments, can we just be Spurs for a minute without making out we deserve to be clubs like Liverpool who have won a dozen titles and get back to getting behind the club we love, not crying about the club we aint
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its so fudging weird too. We should really be more siege about our club but we seem to fall for the lies and the spin against us, when we likely should be pushing back against it.
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Think Ange alluded to it in his post match press conference when he said "somehow I've got a reputation as not caring about set pieces". I think that came from some soundbite he gave last season that was spun that way.

Now there is a media brickstorm over it. It's the first set piece we've conceded this season and we've defended many more very well. It was also against Woolwich who are great at them and there was an argument that it should have been disallowed. Perspective has gone out the window.

Ange has been a little naive with some answers I think. Fergie would have absolutely shut that sort of nonsense down from the media.
 
Here's his actual quote from last season:

“I think I’ve answered this question and I don’t think it satisfies people, but no I don’t see it as an issue,” Postecoglou said.

“It’s something that we work on along with everything in our game. There are far more important things that we need to concentrate on at the moment in terms of the team we’re building.

“I think people want to believe, and it can be, that football is very prescriptive. You’ve got an illness, here’s the tablet and you feel better. I’ve never believed that.

“I’ve always been about trying to create an environment and a style of football that can win things. I’ve never worked in a prescriptive manner and I certainly won’t be doing it now.”

He's not saying, "I don't care about set pieces" at all. In fact, if you read it, he's making a lot of sense even if I don't fully agree. But he's left himself wide open for criticism every time we concede a set piece in an era where understanding is fuelled by soundbites rather than genuine curiosity.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think Ange alluded to it in his post match press conference when he said "somehow I've got a reputation as not caring about set pieces". I think that came from some soundbite he gave last season that was spun that way.

Now there is a media brickstorm over it. It's the first set piece we've conceded this season and we've defended many more very well. It was also against Woolwich who are great at them and there was an argument that it should have been disallowed. Perspective has gone out the window.

Ange has been a little naive with some answers I think. Fergie would have absolutely shut that sort of nonsense down from the media.
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Yeh I agree although I think in this age Fergie would be treated like scum by his own fans after a lean period, its the nature of the game now unfortunately
 
Jamie was very emotional like a fan but his later point about players (not) wanting the ball is very true.

O'Hara stuck the boot into Tottenham stars following the loss to Arsenal, and now claims the players they signed haven't been good enough, insisting: "They’re signing players that no one else wants."
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He told Grovesnor Sport: “The Spurs side that I played in would wipe the floor with the current team,” said O’Hara. “I’d rather have the likes of Robbie Keane, Tom Huddlestone, Aaron Lennon, Dimitar Berbatov, Peter Crouch, and Jermain Defoe over this current side.

"They wanted to get the ball and make things happen. Aaron Lennon would always want the ball and try to beat his man, Johnson looks like he never wants it! If Robbie Keane touched the ball as little as Solanke does, he’d be knocking people out in the dressing room.
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Bedfordspurs said:
He did
But everyone says it wasn’t his team and they were a crap side
That’s the kicker
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Doesn't matter. People can say what they want. He did win them a cup, it gives him a bit more leeway from the owners to believe that yes he might be a winner. Ange has yet to put himself in that position. Hopefully he does this season.
 
parklane1 said:
I have always gone to games over the years and like most fans hoped to win them. Your point is spot on and i do despair at some of the reactions of fans [ not all of them] its as if we do not win then there is something wrong with [ take your pick here] the players, the ref, the away supporters, and especially in some cases Levy.

Of course we ALL want to win but as you show our history is more filled with dissapointment then glory, I go to games for the crack, the travel, the company and many other things and allthough i want us to win our history as a club shows that we have not has much over the years.

Sadly [ imo anyway] that has changed and there are so many in todays game who can do nothing but slag our players, manager, board etc,etc. Do not get me wrong i hate losing games and have a few words about the performances of some players often but that is reaction to the game more then the full picture.

I love my club and always will and i hope some day we will start winning things again [ i have seen us do so many times over the years and i hope so once again] but we are where we are.
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I have stayed off the internet re anything Spurs for my typical two days after any loss for exactly this reason.

To @Grays_1890's point, we/our fans get played so easily
-> Spurs hasn't won a trophy in 15 years, ok? never hear that re Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa, Everton, Southampton, Leeds .. list goes on and on, tons of historical clubs with strong support that haven't won brick in forever, why are we the special ones to pick on?
-> Can Spurs become a side that challenges? we fudging do, we have been in the Europe and in/around top 4 for fudging 16+ years now consistently, we challenge, we don't convert
- > Club doesn't spend? point out actual spend (not to mention infrastructure spend), then it becomes net spend, point out that's still good, then it becomes that two windows when building a 1B stadium, or fudge it, why not mention the January window we bought Saha a decade+ ago

Reality, there are a few things with supporting Spurs

- We have underachieved, not new to ENIC era, quite a few Spurs teams, even the successful ones, should have won more, should have pushed on
- Club will benefit for decades from how it's been run in the ENIC era (bar a truly fudged up takeover), very few clubs in world football are safe financially, and safe financially means it's very hard for us to be in real trouble, bad seasons can be bought out of.
- We are almost unique, too well run/supported to be irrelevant/mid table, not financially doped enough to be elite tier, hence this fudged up balance of expectation/ambition vs. reality of modern game

Caveat, it's not purely our fans who are clams, to the previous post AFTV probably set the baseline for the modern reactionary brick take on everything and unfortunately that's been embraced by large amounts of vocal fans ..
 
Raziel said:
I have stayed off the internet re anything Spurs for my typical two days after any loss for exactly this reason.

To @Grays_1890's point, we/our fans get played so easily
-> Spurs hasn't won a trophy in 15 years, ok? never hear that re Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa, Everton, Southampton, Leeds .. list goes on and on, tons of historical clubs with strong support that haven't won brick in forever, why are we the special ones to pick on?
-> Can Spurs become a side that challenges? we fudging do, we have been in the Europe and in/around top 4 for fudging 16+ years now consistently, we challenge, we don't convert
- > Club doesn't spend? point out actual spend (not to mention infrastructure spend), then it becomes net spend, point out that's still good, then it becomes that two windows when building a 1B stadium, or fudge it, why not mention the January window we bought Saha a decade+ ago

Reality, there are a few things with supporting Spurs

- We have underachieved, not new to ENIC era, quite a few Spurs teams, even the successful ones, should have won more, should have pushed on
- Club will benefit for decades from how it's been run in the ENIC era (bar a truly fudged up takeover), very few clubs in world football are safe financially, and safe financially means it's very hard for us to be in real trouble, bad seasons can be bought out of.
- We are almost unique, too well run/supported to be irrelevant/mid table, not financially doped enough to be elite tier, hence this fudged up balance of expectation/ambition vs. reality of modern game

Caveat, it's not purely our fans who are clams, to the previous post AFTV probably set the baseline for the modern reactionary brick take on everything and unfortunately that's been embraced by large amounts of vocal fans ..
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Good post and agree with everything bar the last paragraph.

To me, it is now evident that Ange's system will not cut it in the prem. I suspect that it won't work in Europe either.

Its not a reaction to the game on Sunday, not even to the 4 games so far this season.

I've been a every home game since Ange took over. And watched most of the away games on TV.

And I can see his system is flawed. Lots of good things about it, but its flawed. And, unless he changes it, we are destined for a mid-table finish.

I want better than that. I've been around long enough to have seen us win things......I don't expect us to win a trophy every season, but I expect us to compete. Like we did under Poch and under Keith Burkinshaw. I don't think that that is unreasonable.

I like Ange and I still hold out hope that he can succeed. But unless he changes his rigid system, I don't think he will.
 
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