glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
If a manager seeing that we are being bullied and our energy levels have dropped and said manager making changes to try and nullify that is "drastic", then i don't know what to say...
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
- Thread starter tommysvr
- Start date
If a manager seeing that we are being bullied and our energy levels have dropped and said manager making changes to try and nullify that is "drastic", then i don't know what to say...
There is no long-term in football anymore. Vast majority of coaching set ups last no longer than a few seasons. People like to talk about "projects" but at a really well-run club this is actually about a footballing blue-print set by a director of football/sporting director that manages the recruitment of both players and coaching staff to best match the club's philosophy.
Thing with Mourinho is he is as you say a counter attacking manager but he was largely handed a squad built by Poch to be a high pressing attacking squad. The investment in hindsight wasn't matched to what that particular head coach needed. Bale clearly wasn't who Mourinho wanted. He tried to make a system work with the squad he had but it didn't work and he never stays longer than 2 or 3 seasons at a club.
Conte was similar only he wanted wing backs and a 3-4-3 so again we are in the middle of shifting our entire philosophy, buying Porro for example then we get rid of him and hire someone who plays in a completely different way once again.
So there's clearly poor decision making at the top but I also think Ange is not filling me with confidence as someone that will still be here in another season.
Brighton are an example of how you should do things though. They've had a few different head coaches over the last few years yet the style of play and recruitment has remained consistent and they're consistently hovering around the top 8 with a fraction of the resources of many PL clubs.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
No one is asking for drastic changes from Ange.
Tweaking the tactics/making early subs/in game management to see out games isn't drastic, it's football management 101.
2-0 away from home and seeing the game out by going a bit more defensive isn't some sort of anti footballing crime.
I'm also not sure where the whole it's Anges suicide football or Jose low block and that's it has come from either.
There is plenty inbetween.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
TBF the subs talk is the stick to beat the manager with, I get it, its an easy win, but there was nothing about subs that stops a player slicing it after the restart into the path of the striker and one player waltzing past 4 players with 7 or 8 behind the ball with toothless attempts to get he ball, that was not fatigue or being bullied, it was players not taking a lead, that happens with or without the subs IMO. As @harr1984 said, I have seen this movie a million times over and yes we have given up leads plenty of times in the past in the same way.
At the end of the day, fine sack Ange, lets write off another season, have another two windows where we need to overhaul the squad because they are "not their players" and go midtable - midtable, at this point I am almost beyond caring, another year another manager..............great vision
Thats funny because when we've been winning games in the past people are complaining that we didn't keep going for it, when we lose low and behold we should have just shut shop - I wish I'd thought of becoming a PL manager, it's such an easy game sitting here watching it right?
We conceded two minutes into the second half, so whatever Ange's teamtalk and tactics were they would have been thrown into disarray. Also how do you know he didn't try to change anything? There are several ways to change things beyond making subs, and just because you didn't see anything change doesn't mean he didnt try and change things in any way....
It's not about shutting up shop but it is about making the other team work, not looking for the Hollywood balls and trying to force things. If you're 2-0 up it's the other team that needs to force things not you, just keep the ball, pass it around, make them chase. The gaps will open up eventually for the break and if they don't you've won 2-0. Nobody is asking for him to line the team up on the edge of our own box. I just don't want our full backs wandering in-field or Romero try to thread the ball through a tight gap to a player 20 metres away.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
We've not been losing games because we've not be going for it have we? We've been in all out attack mode since Ange arrived.
You can see clearly we didn't try and change anything, still wide open on the flanks and giving up space in the middle in the second half.
Plus we have a years worth of games showing he doesn't really change much in game.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
We have indeed seen this movie before, but we have ALSO seen coaches recognise when the second half hasn't started well AND MAKE CHANGES to stop the bleeding. Ange has done so himself.
Ultimately, it might be Ange and his actions (or as in the case yesterday, inaction) that writes off another season himself..
We could talk about the club vision another time (we've all got two weeks to stew over yesterday's mess anyway
)
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
We have indeed seen this movie before, but we have ALSO seen coaches recognise when the second half hasn't started well AND MAKE CHANGES to stop the bleeding. Ange has done so himself.
Ultimately, it might be Ange and his actions (or as in the case yesterday, inaction) that writes off another season himself..
We could talk about the club vision another time (we've all got two weeks to stew over yesterday's mess anyway
I mean maybe so, but I expect Romero and MVDV to take some ownership on defensive lead, no subs change that IMO, both were abysmal yesterday and I love them both, they should be soul searching today
Legohamster
Ian Walker
If the manager isn't right , the manager isn't right.
It doesn't matter what the long term vision is
The set up of the club to bring young talent in means we are in a better position to change the manager if need be
Mr Gogolak
Espen Baardsen
At least on television, he does seem a bit passive but there's no such thing as a perfect manager anyway. Some have a great intuition when it comes to making substitutions on the fly, other prefer to work on a weekly basis. It's never nice to lose a game the way we did but it happens to almost everyone over the course of a season, particularly in the Premier League.
Personally, I'd rather lose a game after a great first half than suffer a miserable yet consistent performance. Postecoglou's comments don't really help his case but for me, he's done enough to get to the end of the season, barring some exceptionnally poor form/results. Sacking someone midway through the season is hardly a great idea and it's not like there is a great manager out of work out there dying to sign for us. He's much closer to recapturing last season's early form, why not give it a try? If we end up in midtable, he will probably have to go but at least, we'll have all the time we need to pick the next guy.
DeanoAustin
Les Ferdinand
His is a very interesting approach. He isn’t thinking “what could I have done short term to fix yesterday”, he’s thinking “fundamentally, what caused my team to collapse”. And there is logic to it. There’s more to this than just personnel changes at a point in time. There is some sort of mentality problem that runs through the club.
This game can be so reactionary and short term though, even amongst the greats of the game as well as media and fans, that I’m intrigued to see how it plays out for Ange. I’d love him to succeed because he is all that is good about football in his principles and approach.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Course the long term visions matters, the bloke went into the first season selling the best striker in the world and he IMO kept the side together pretty well first season considering the nuances which that impact and others through the season had. The fact we are now what, 7 games into a period where he has a recognisable striker, for example.
The changes and the vision have impacted the journey and that it is still a process to continue, we could spend all day unpicking it but for me its pretty clear that the overhaul and progress is still very much ongoing.
Yes we can say he is wrong (I don't believe he is) and we can start again, as I say, but for me thats far more damaging than continuing at this stage, he is far from the places of previous managers when they were sacked IMO.
As someone said magnificently on twitter yesterday, people seemingly parking their doubts when we win and then go hell for leather when we lose, I mean I can expect some excuses such as "poor oppo" but we are off the back of a 5 wins on the bounce, its far from Nunoball
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Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Ah but it’s only 10 points form 7
There is some spin if people want it
Which they do
Why look at positives when negatives are why some people claim to support spurs. teletext is full of it
It’s a vicious circle. We know it and unfortunately our opposition also knows it.
I can imagine the likes of Milner using this as a motivation at HT yesterday.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
We are 2 points better than Man Utd and look how we comment about them....
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Well they are brick yet the mighty Villa couldn’t beat them at home… so how bad are they.
United yesterday looked organised. It’s why they have kept more clean sheets than anyone but look so blunt up top
That’s not gonna win you games but will stop you losing them
Well yes exactlyYeah, he probably said "Lads, it's Tottenham.."
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
We/Ange just needs some of that organisation for us to go places. ETH was in a fix going into yesterday (he still might get sacked regardless) but he at least made it difficult for his team to get beaten when he was up against the wall.
My worry is i haven't seen one do-or-die game when Ange has shown he is capable of doing the same...