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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

billyiddo said:
The reasoning behind the 1 goal defeats can be spun either way really imv
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Of course
And even the draws
We should face beaten Lestah and wolves at home
Fulham we were lucky although if Sonny had took his two chances earlier we would have won
We just lost to Saudi Sportswashing Machine both times when a draw would have been a fairer result but it’s not about being fair
 
it doesn't matter how the drama unfolds - the whole aim is to get as many points per game, doesn't really matter how you do it.
over the course of 38 games the most points win - and thats how people remember it.
 
billyiddo said:
They are, but that says to me that we only win when we're comfortably the better team on the day - if it's in any way a contest we will likely not get a result.

That's what I'm reading in to it but like I say it can be spun other ways I'm sure.
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I agree with this assessment. If we blow the opposition away we win, if the game is a closer fought contest we lose.
 
braineclipse said:
Going by what Ange has said this period could be useful for development of the players already playing regularly too.

Our squad is looking significantly stronger now than it did 3-4 months ago. Just that we still have a lot of it missing.
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"Going by what Ange has said"

lol - that's as bad as "It is what it is mate"

Only jesting :)
 
spurspinter1 said:
It's a good question mate, maybe reigning in the FBs a bit sooner than he has done? I could say earlier integration of Spence but he has been out with the odd niggly injury here and there. The counter point question is whether Ange has got absolutely everything he could have gotten out of the team during not just this stage but the past 12 months or so of fairly wretched form.

Arguably the damage was done by only making one signing that improved the first XI in the summer. But then even to that, Odobert could have been right up there adding in something different with his skillset. I can understand wanting to sign the types of players we couldn't sign in a couple of years once they've flourished a la Gray (if it's grey i am sorry Bullet) / Bergvall. But we've spent enough that an injury to Richarlison + Wilson shouldn't suddenly mean we need Moore / Lankshear to step up when they've barely got a goal or assist to their name in men's football.

The less said about the epicenter of incidents and accidents in our dynamic and predictably unpredictable senior midfield duo the better.

Plus our talismanic "best" player looking absolutely dreadful and us extending his contract doesn't look great. That one is a tricky situation, easy in hindsight but perhaps he should have left when Kane did to really start a new era (this is miles off what you asked me so apologies for the tangent!)
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I actually think it's much simpler and most teams do it

- Game management, chose periods to do your 100% thing, choose periods to sit back and manage the game, keep the opposition in front of you

Every single game, every single team plays, the opposition will get a 10-20 minute spell where they have more of the ball, their passing works, a couple of players are influencing the game heavily. The reason we fudging lose tight games is because when we are dominating the game, our opponents are happy to sit back and suck it up, work, low block if needed, make sure we are not getting in behind them. When our opponents get their spell, we still leave fudging space, we still overcommit (even with a lead), we leave ourselves vulnerable at moments in the game when it's not required.

And that has a knock effect, playing 100%, 100% of the time and constantly having to sprint back to recover against counters absolutely has to be contributing to our injuries, which gets the squad smaller, which creates more fatigue, poor performances, tired players can't recover against counters as well, viscous circle

The short answer is no Ange hasn't got the best out of this squad
- We can argue all day if Spurs has given him enough to be in top 6
- I don't think any rational person can argue this squad is not only not top half, but (by results) the worse squad of the EPL era (at this point of season)
 
Raziel said:
I don't think any rational person can argue this squad is not only not top half, but (by results) the worse squad of the EPL era (at this point of season)
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I must be irrational then.

Not saying you can't improve it, but I think this squad is actually pretty damn good compared to what Jose and Conte had to work with.

I would have said at the start of the season that the GK, defence and midfield is the strongest area. The forward line has it all to prove. I still think that's the case, based on what I've seen from the lads that have stepped into GK, Def and MF roles during the injury crisis.
 
Bishop said:
I agree with this assessment. If we blow the opposition away we win, if the game is a closer fought contest we lose.
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It's actually quite a concern given that if we do get sucked in further down the table all of a sudden every game is likely going to be a battle- christ it's so hard to try and just take view that we should just stick rather than twist
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So you think we have our best players available now then?
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Not necessarily.

But we were losing to Ipswich and Palace, and struggling against Coventry, with full squads; I'm not sure that the current central defensive pairing have made more errors, or been significantly worse in any way, than Romero and VDV; Spence has looked at least as good as Udogie; Richarlison rarely does much even when he is fit...

I get that we will at least have the opportunity to rest some players when more are back, but I'm not sure there is going to be the significant surge in quality, and our ability to win games, that some think. There's much more to it than our injury list imo.
 
Raziel said:
I actually think it's much simpler and most teams do it

- Game management, chose periods to do your 100% thing, choose periods to sit back and manage the game, keep the opposition in front of you

Every single game, every single team plays, the opposition will get a 10-20 minute spell where they have more of the ball, their passing works, a couple of players are influencing the game heavily. The reason we fudging lose tight games is because when we are dominating the game, our opponents are happy to sit back and suck it up, work, low block if needed, make sure we are not getting in behind them. When our opponents get their spell, we still leave fudging space, we still overcommit (even with a lead), we leave ourselves vulnerable at moments in the game when it's not required.

And that has a knock effect, playing 100%, 100% of the time and constantly having to sprint back to recover against counters absolutely has to be contributing to our injuries, which gets the squad smaller, which creates more fatigue, poor performances, tired players can't recover against counters as well, viscous circle

The short answer is no Ange hasn't got the best out of this squad
- We can argue all day if Spurs has given him enough to be in top 6
- I don't think any rational person can argue this squad is not only not top half, but (by results) the worse squad of the EPL era (at this point of season)
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It's interesting because I think of myself as generally pro Ange (with concerns) but it does have to be said that if the contention is that Ange has done as well as he possibly could given the circumstances then you have to say that he's probably not the man for us, because even given the large (largely self caused injuries) we could and should be doing better.
 
Raziel said:
I actually think it's much simpler and most teams do it

- Game management, chose periods to do your 100% thing, choose periods to sit back and manage the game, keep the opposition in front of you

Every single game, every single team plays, the opposition will get a 10-20 minute spell where they have more of the ball, their passing works, a couple of players are influencing the game heavily. The reason we fudging lose tight games is because when we are dominating the game, our opponents are happy to sit back and suck it up, work, low block if needed, make sure we are not getting in behind them. When our opponents get their spell, we still leave fudging space, we still overcommit (even with a lead), we leave ourselves vulnerable at moments in the game when it's not required.

And that has a knock effect, playing 100%, 100% of the time and constantly having to sprint back to recover against counters absolutely has to be contributing to our injuries, which gets the squad smaller, which creates more fatigue, poor performances, tired players can't recover against counters as well, viscous circle

The short answer is no Ange hasn't got the best out of this squad
- We can argue all day if Spurs has given him enough to be in top 6
- I don't think any rational person can argue this squad is not only not top half, but (by results) the worse squad of the EPL era (at this point of season)
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Gosh, laying things out like that shows in stark black and white our issues, which have been ongoing since maybe the Chelsea home game last October!

I know there are still quite a lot of backers of Ange on here, i'd be VERY interested in any of them taking the time to counter these points, which (imo) in stark black and white show why Ange is NOT the person who should be managing this club beyond this season..
 
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Bishop said:
It's interesting because I think of myself as generally pro Ange (with concerns) but it does have to be said that if the contention is that Ange has done as well as he possibly could given the circumstances then you have to say that he's probably not the man for us, because even given the large (largely self caused injuries) we could and should be doing better.
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Since the injuries this season i believe we've been running at relegation form? The table has us in 14th but in reality the injury spell form is a faur bit worse than that position and as bad as it can be, I don't think that's in any way excusable or a fair reflection of the players available. Again i want to caveat it by saying I'm just assessing performance rather than calling for sackings or what not - i do think there's a few posters suggesting that this level of performance is excusable - i just can't abide that opinion.
 
billyiddo said:
Since the injuries this season i believe we've been running at relegation form? The table has us in 14th but in reality the injury spell form is a faur bit worse than that position and as bad as it can be, I don't think that's in any way excusable or a fair reflection of the players available. Again i want to caveat it by saying I'm just assessing performance rather than calling for sackings or what not - i do think there's a few posters suggesting that this level of performance is excusable - i just can't abide that opinion.
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I'm a bit tired of the injuries excuse. Romero has been a liability this season and given away 3-4 goals. VdV is a very good player but he is error prone. The big thing he gives us is pace both from a defensive and offensive perspective. Udogie has been mediocre for a year. None of their replacements have cost us (m)any more goals than those lads really.

Vicario is a good keeper but we haven't really missed him from a goals against perspective. Forster cost us two goals really I can recall - they were both in a game we won. Vicario might have stopped Woolwich's winner the other night admittedly but Kinsky looks a good find to me.

You could argue stability could give us cohesion - I'm not so sure. I haven't seen any sign of it so far in Ange's reign.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do but I don't expect a massive uptick in results when those boys come back. I think we'll pick up 3-6 points from the next two games and hopefully average 1.5 points a game or thereabouts for the remainder of the season. A cup is Ange's best chance of survival and that really depends on us being "on our day" at precisely the right times.

The primary reason we are where we are isn't bad luck IMO.
 
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DeanoAustin said:
I'm a bit tired of the injuries excuse. Romero has been a liability this season and given away 3-4 goals. VdV is a very good player but he is error prone. The big thing he gives us is pace both from a defensive and offensive perspective. Udogie has been mediocre for a year. None of their replacements have cost us (m)any more goals than those lads really.

Vicario is a good keeper but we haven't really missed him from a goals against perspective. Forster cost us two goals really I can recall - they were both in a game we won. Vicario might have stopped Woolwich's winner the other night admittedly but Kinsky looks a good find to me.

You could argue stability could give us cohesion - I'm not so sure. I haven't seen any sign of it so far in Ange's reign.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do but I don't expect a massive uptick in results when those boys come back. I think we'll pick up 3-6 points from the next two games and hopefully average 1.5 points a game or thereabouts for the remainder of the season. A cup is Ange's best chance of survival and that really depends on us being "on our day" at precisely the right times.

The primary reason we are where we are isn't bad luck IMO.
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Spot-on in every respect.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I'm a bit tired of the injuries excuse. Romero has been a liability this season and given away 3-4 goals. VdV is a very good player but he is error prone. The big thing he gives us is pace both from a defensive and offensive perspective. Udogie has been mediocre for a year. None of their replacements have cost us (m)any more goals than those lads really.

Vicario is a good keeper but we haven't really missed him from a goals against perspective. Forster cost us two goals really I can recall - they were both in a game we won. Vicario might have stopped Woolwich's winner the other night admittedly but Kinsky looks a good find to me.

You could argue stability could give us cohesion - I'm not so sure. I haven't seen any sign of it so far in Ange's reign.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do but I don't expect a massive uptick in results when those boys come back. I think we'll pick up 3-6 points from the next two games and hopefully average 1.5 points a game or thereabouts for the remainder of the season. A cup is Ange's best chance of survival and that really depends on us being "on our day" at precisely the right times.

The primary reason we are where we are isn't bad luck IMO.
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Generally agree - injuries obviously do play a part, but that excuse runs out of gas when you're talking about relegation form - with a normal spate of injuries we should be looking at top 6, top 8 if you want to be overly negative about the team that finished 5th last season, with injuries you could excuse that dropping down to mid table table sort of form - not barely picking up a point over a couple of months? Nah
 
billyiddo said:
Since the injuries this season i believe we've been running at relegation form? The table has us in 14th but in reality the injury spell form is a faur bit worse than that position and as bad as it can be, I don't think that's in any way excusable or a fair reflection of the players available. Again i want to caveat it by saying I'm just assessing performance rather than calling for sackings or what not - i do think there's a few posters suggesting that this level of performance is excusable - i just can't abide that opinion.
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Since the injuries decimated our squad in November we’ve been 3 points off relegation places.

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Although even when we had a fully fit squad at the start of the season we still lost as many PL games as we won.

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