Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[glasgowspur]

If when ange was appointed we would have been told that after 16 games we were three points behind city, challenging for top four, had an unbeaten run of 10 games, and out of the top teams only been beaten by Chelsea (under mad circumstances) all while playing really good football we would all be creaming ourselves.
Yes we are on a bad run, but there are reasons for it, those reasons are temporary, things will improve.
It's frustrating but when we get back to even close to full strength we are more than capable of going on another long unbeaten run.

 

[Yiddo]

Not Ange’s fault we now dominate games rip teams apart for 45 minutes but can’t take our chances. We need to put the ball in the back of the net and we win the games we lost quite comfortably.

 

[Baleforce]

The problem is at the back not the front, and it’s not just down to the injuries, we’ve been conceding too many goals all season, only 4 clean sheets in 17 (?) games.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't know why you're so quick to make such a definitive statement on where we can go tbh - the negatives currently, as i see them, mostly boil down to a lack of quality beyond the first XI and a front line that hasn't really settled post-Kane, as far as tactics and approach go i can barely find a negative straw to clutch at.

Wrt backing from the club we just need to continue at the same standard we have been at over the last 2-3 seasons.

I hope I’m wrong, I really do. I’m just offering an opinion on what I’ve seen over 15 games. He’s been very unlucky with absentees but, IMO, there are some issues that are down to how he sets up. Take the two free kick goals conceded against Villa and City. For me, that’s not personnel. That’s allowing the opposition to get a run on our defenders. I know there's an alternative view and other clubs do it but, ultimately, it's cost us two goals.

The Chelsea game was beautiful madness. I'm not going to go too hard on that because whatever we do with 9 men, we're probably losing. But the approach was bonkers. Great fun but mad stuff.

Bissouma losing the ball against City is because that’s what he’s being encouraged to do. If he did that under Conte or Mourinho, he'd be dropped. He'd have laid it off to Udogie all day. Again, it cost us. Royal against Wolves at 1-1 helped turn the ball over for the winner when we were in a situation where we should have accepted the draw and he was looking to get a winner. A streetwise team knows that momentum has shifted and they play out the game.

I don’t think any manager can get us challenging in all honestly. We’re just not set up to compete as a club. And all managers come with weaknesses. For Ange, it’s a lack of being streetwise and a gung go approach at any cost. It’s entertaining which is the trade off but we won't challenge for the league with it in my view. I love Ange's principles, I love how he sees the game but at this level, I don't believe you can get away with what he's doing.

Attacking, front foot football comes with risk. It's not a guarantee of success. Ange takes too many risks.

 

[DeanoAustin]

If when ange was appointed we would have been told that after 16 games we were three points behind city, challenging for top four, had an unbeaten run of 10 games, and out of the top teams only been beaten by Chelsea (under mad circumstances) all while playing really good football we would all be creaming ourselves.
Yes we are on a bad run, but there are reasons for it, those reasons are temporary, things will improve.
It's frustrating but when we get back to even close to full strength we are more than capable of going on another long unbeaten run.

On balance, I'm reasonably happy with where we are but I've seen this quite a bit. After 16 games, no one would have expected City to be on 30 points with 3 defeats. If we were offered 3 points ahead of West Ham or 9 points behind Woolwich, would we have been happy with that?

 

[glasgowspur]

On balance, I'm reasonably happy with where we are but I've seen this quite a bit. After 16 games, no one would have expected City to be on 30 points with 3 defeats. If we were offered 3 points ahead of West Ham or 9 points behind Woolwich, would we have been happy with that?

In wider context yes I would.
Everyone is taking points off everyone else, the league hasn't settled yet.
It's a very even league atm, there is a long way to go, I think we will improve, not convinced villa, west ham or even arsenal will keep their form going.

 

[Surfless]

I hope I’m wrong, I really do. I’m just offering an opinion on what I’ve seen over 15 games. He’s been very unlucky with absentees but, IMO, there are some issues that are down to how he sets up. Take the two free kick goals conceded against Villa and City. For me, that’s not personnel. That’s allowing the opposition to get a run on our defenders. I know there's an alternative view and other clubs do it but, ultimately, it's cost us two goals.

The Chelsea game was beautiful madness. I'm not going to go too hard on that because whatever we do with 9 men, we're probably losing. But the approach was bonkers. Great fun but mad stuff.

Bissouma losing the ball against City is because that’s what he’s being encouraged to do. If he did that under Conte or Mourinho, he'd be dropped. He'd have laid it off to Udogie all day. Again, it cost us. Royal against Wolves at 1-1 helped turn the ball over for the winner when we were in a situation where we should have accepted the draw and he was looking to get a winner. A streetwise team knows that momentum has shifted and they play out the game.

I don’t think any manager can get us challenging in all honestly. We’re just not set up to compete as a club. And all managers come with weaknesses. For Ange, it’s a lack of being streetwise and a gung go approach at any cost. It’s entertaining which is the trade off but we won't challenge for the league with it in my view. I love Ange's principles, I love how he sees the game but at this level, I don't believe you can get away with what he's doing.

Attacking, front foot football comes with risk. It's not a guarantee of success. Ange takes too many risks.

Poch had us challenging. Got us to a champions league final and within a game or two of winning the league.

Losing is horrible but are you sure that you're not just letting the emotion of a defeat get in the way of your reasoning?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Poch had us challenging. Got us to a champions league final and within a game or two of winning the league.

Losing is horrible but are you sure that you're not just letting the emotion of a defeat get in the way of your reasoning?

No, I'm certainly not. I've felt it for a while, even before the defeats. We got a lot of good fortune in the first 10 games and I did say that here at the time. I'm okay with that, I've said from the start - 4th-8th is a good/decent job and especially if we play entertaining football.

I don't see Ange ever emulating what Poch did. Hopefully you're throwing this post in my face in a couple of years but I'm not convinced.

 

[Grays_1890]

On balance, I'm reasonably happy with where we are but I've seen this quite a bit. After 16 games, no one would have expected City to be on 30 points with 3 defeats. If we were offered 3 points ahead of West Ham or 9 points behind Woolwich, would we have been happy with that?

Absolutely would have been, the situation last season was rotten and dire. We knew in part this season was going to be a rip up and start again with a manager who would see it as a project and not a quick fix.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

No, I'm certainly not. I've felt it for a while, even before the defeats. We got a lot of good fortune in the first 10 games and I did say that here at the time. I'm okay with that, I've said from the start - 4th-8th is a good/decent job and especially if we play entertaining football.

I don't see Ange ever emulating what Poch did. Hopefully you're throwing this post in my face in a couple of years but I'm not convinced.

The footballing landscape has massively changed since those Poch days though. We’re talking about a time when Leicester won the league with about 80 points, that would never happen nowadays. City, Liverpool, Arsenal are all 10x stronger. Then you have Saudi Sportswashing Machine and their money.. Villa with a good manager and sensible recruitment..

None of that was around in those peak Poch days.

 

[Modrical]

Our start warped expectations and as many have said a bad/dodgy patch was always likely. I don't think anyone is questioning Ange's approach too much, but i do agree with the sentiment that we maybe need to be less gung-ho at times. I don't think that was necessarily the case last night v Spammers, too many players being under par and them being very fortunate with the bounce of the ball for their goals being the main ones.

Ange has reeled me back in with Spurs though, i was very disinterested with Nuno, Jose and Conte in charge, and we are/have seen progress in the club/team in a very short space of time, so long may that continue

 

[glasgowspur]

No, I'm certainly not. I've felt it for a while, even before the defeats. We got a lot of good fortune in the first 10 games and I did say that here at the time. I'm okay with that, I've said from the start - 4th-8th is a good/decent job and especially if we play entertaining football.

I don't see Ange ever emulating what Poch did. Hopefully you're throwing this post in my face in a couple of years but I'm not convinced.

Not emulating Poch should not be seen as failure in my view. We had a lot circumstances come together that seemed to be good for us but in my opinion actually led to us collapsing under unrealistic expectations.

 

[tynesidespur]

I hope I’m wrong, I really do. I’m just offering an opinion on what I’ve seen over 15 games. He’s been very unlucky with absentees but, IMO, there are some issues that are down to how he sets up. Take the two free kick goals conceded against Villa and City. For me, that’s not personnel. That’s allowing the opposition to get a run on our defenders. I know there's an alternative view and other clubs do it but, ultimately, it's cost us two goals.

The Chelsea game was beautiful madness. I'm not going to go too hard on that because whatever we do with 9 men, we're probably losing. But the approach was bonkers. Great fun but mad stuff.

Bissouma losing the ball against City is because that’s what he’s being encouraged to do. If he did that under Conte or Mourinho, he'd be dropped. He'd have laid it off to Udogie all day. Again, it cost us. Royal against Wolves at 1-1 helped turn the ball over for the winner when we were in a situation where we should have accepted the draw and he was looking to get a winner. A streetwise team knows that momentum has shifted and they play out the game.

I don’t think any manager can get us challenging in all honestly. We’re just not set up to compete as a club. And all managers come with weaknesses. For Ange, it’s a lack of being streetwise and a gung go approach at any cost. It’s entertaining which is the trade off but we won't challenge for the league with it in my view. I love Ange's principles, I love how he sees the game but at this level, I don't believe you can get away with what he's doing.

Attacking, front foot football comes with risk. It's not a guarantee of success. Ange takes too many risks.

I agree with this. I think his system comes with deficiencies and we can be exploited badly on transitions if we don't win the ball back high up.

Offensively we're somewhat toothless without Maddison. Our main tactic seems to be invert the full back, play it to the wide man who has come deeper who then turns it around the corner to the inverted full back who is now bombing on. That along with low crosses into the box if we have drawn the opposition out. We have nothing else without a Maddison to create openings.

This season he has the element of surprise but there's no guarantee that long-term this approach will be fruitful. The level of analysis in the PL has never been higher and without the best players in each position - same as for Klopp/Pep and the like this sort of system is always doomed to fail.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not emulating Poch should not be seen as failure in my view. We had a lot circumstances come together that seemed to be good for us but in my opinion actually led to us collapsing under unrealistic expectations.

Its those expectations that I struggle to understand sometimes with our club

 

[Surfless]

the difference in careers between Poch and Ange is that Ange has won everywhere he's gone - I don't really want Ange emulating Poch.

 

[tommysvr]

Our start warped expectations and as many have said a bad/dodgy patch was always likely. I don't think anyone is questioning Ange's approach too much, but i do agree with the sentiment that we maybe need to be less gung-ho at times. I don't think that was necessarily the case last night v Spammers, too many players being under par and them being very fortunate with the bounce of the ball for their goals being the main ones.

Ange has reeled me back in with Spurs though, i was very disinterested with Nuno, Jose and Conte in charge, and we are/have seen progress in the club/team in a very short space of time, so long may that continue

Honest question, when has this so-called gung ho style actually caused us problems? We’ve conceded a couple of goals from mistakes in playing the ball at the back, but I don’t think that’s the same thing. I don’t think we’ve been gung ho at all. I think it’s a high press, quick passing and lots of movement, but all in a very deliberate and organised manner. It’s not 5 strikers on the pitch at all times.

 

[Kandi1977]

It's funny cos it's true. Still think Ten will be gone

Playing like Real Madrid, but not winning. Big difference. Manure play like brick, but still manage to get results.
And at this point in the season, in the state we're in, I'd rather be lucky than good.

 

[Grays_1890]

the difference in careers between Poch and Ange is that Ange has won everywhere he's gone - I don't really want Ange emulating Poch.

Absolutely, its the opposite of installing a winners mentality in the long run. Love Poch but he has not one anything (outside PSG).

 

[glasgowspur]

the difference in careers between Poch and Ange is that Ange has won everywhere he's gone - I don't really want Ange emulating Poch.

Absolutely, its the opposite of installing a winners mentality in the long run. Love Poch but he has not one anything (outside PSG).

Don't know anything about Australian or Japanese football so won't comment on that, but I have seen a lo of people praise ange for "turning Celtic around".
They lost one title in something like 12 years, it really wasn't big a deal.
Comparing that to a tottenham team barely making top four and what Poch achieved with it is in no way even comparable.
Not that I'm having a go at ange, far from it, I'm 100% behind him, but a fairer comparison is between Celtic and psg.

 

[Grays_1890]

Don't know anything about Australian or Japanese football so won't comment on that, but I have seen a lo of people praise ange for "turning Celtic around".
They lost one title in something like 12 years, it really wasn't big a deal.
Comparing that to a tottenham team barely making top four and what Poch achieved with it is in no way even comparable.
Not that I'm having a go at ange, far from it, I'm 100% behind him, but a fairer comparison is between Celtic and psg.

Its not the achievement I am cracking on about its the mentality. Ange comes from a background of expecting to win and that being a huge part of his mentality. Thats not comparing the standard of football, I don't think that matters when it comes to his expectations.

As I keep saying, it is for me refreshing to have a manager that finally wants to set the club up top to bottom with a new mentality, one that might take some pains to install but one that will IMO hold us in good stead when we move forward.

Its ok to keep changing managers and putting bandaids on the club, but the reality is, even if we get to finals its often the weak mentality that lets us down.

Changing the mindset and narrative round Spurs, including those in the fanbase won't be an overnight thing, even if its not Ange to do it. But I have waited 40 years for someone to come in and try and change this club from the nearly rans and odd pot winner and I for one will back whoever that is wanting to do it for the long term