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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 91 72.2%

  • Out

    Votes: 35 27.8%
  • Total voters
    126
Raziel said:
Players are opinions, but I think you are giving Keller way too much credit

1. Keller has a grand total of 60 games under his belt, Vicario has played 290+ despite being only 2 years older
2. Pressure of being a backup keeper and the #1 is very different
3. Keller is playing behind VVD and a midfield and system that does a lot to protect him

Keepers are funny to evaluate, most have a decent run early in their career (Pickford, Pope, Henderson, etc.) and later drop to more of a journeyman level, who knows if Keller will step up (he absolutely may).
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That's a good point, Pool have an extremely good defence and midfield protection, and get all "tight calls" from the ref e.g. more protection. I think Kelleher is OK, but isn't some great messiah that will improve Spurs.
 
DubSpur said:
Ignorant? You mentioned that he hasn't tried to be a number 1 etc. He has, that's the reason for paragraph 1.

Vicario has been far from incredible for 23 EPL games. He's a great shot stopper, wouldn't argue which is better between him and Kelleher, there's not much in it. The difference is in Kellehers command of his area and dealing with crosses. He's so far ahead of Vicario in that regard it would make a huge difference to our defence.
The evidence is watching games and judging the keepers. If you don't agree that's fair enough, but for me he's one of the top keepers in the league.
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Ignorant - your comment that I didn't understand his situation.

Vicario for the first half of the season when he joined looked like the second coming of Buffon.
Since then, he has levelled off and shows and mixture of excellent strengths and some weaknesses.
How is a better shot stopper? No idea - the sample size for Kelleher is too small to properly judge.
At times, Kelleher had looked like the second coming of Buffon (what is Buffon in Irish?!) - after a season or two a full grasp of his strengths and weaknesses can be assessed.
He may very well be incredible.
He may be average.
He may be inconsistent - brilliant as a no 2 but brick as a top level no 1 (he wouldn't be the first. The likes of Cudicini spring to mind)
 
Raziel said:
Like I said mate, take a look at who would actually move to a better club, who there is actual noise about

- Romero, VDV, Porro, Deki are all seen as "targets" for big clubs including RM, recent Deki stuff with Juve

Usually is a better barometer than our own personal view/bias.
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I don't doubt that those players are being tracked because they're great players. Romero consistently demonstrates that for Argentina for example. But other than Deki perhaps, they're not performing consistently well for Spurs and haven't done over the last year.
 
Gazza said:
I think you forgot to mention the games when we were winning and failed to get the win … I understand that it’s part of football but it seems more of a regular thing under Ange.

I don’t know how many times we have been in front knowing that we won’t get a win it’s that obvious from me watching the game why can’t Ange see it?
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The discussion was about us not shutting up shop and killing games when 2 or more goals up (using Man Utd in the cup as the example.)

Is your point that we should be doing it when we’re 1 goal up too?
 
tommysvr said:
The discussion was about us not shutting up shop and killing games when 2 or more goals up (using Man Utd in the cup as the example.)

Is your point that we should be doing it when we’re 1 goal up too?
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Even you have the ability to see my point.

But here we go, you can brush it all under the carpet , but we are not savvy enough to manage tight games. We should be able to hold onto a lead as all good teams and managers do. We just play the same same get tired and the opposition manager then can adjust and pick us apart.

But how about you look at the main stat … the table and form guide
 
Gazza said:
Even you have the ability to see my point.

But here we go, you can brush it all under the carpet , but we are not savvy enough to manage tight games. We should be able to hold onto a lead as all good teams and managers do. We just play the same same get tired and the opposition manager then can adjust and pick us apart.

But how about you look at the main stat … the table and form guide
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This season we've not won after taking the lead in these games:

- Leicester 1-1
- Brighton 2-3
- Roma 2-2
- Fulham 1-1
- Chelsea 3-4
- Wolves 2-2

So 6 out of 29 matches, only 2 of them losses. I'd argue our bigger issue is that we concede the first goal too often. That's happened in these matches:

- Saudi Sportswashing Machine 1-2
- Arsenal 0-1
- Coventry 2-1
- Brentford 3-1
- West Ham 4-1
- Crystal Palace 0-1
- Aston Villa 4-1
- Galatasaray 2-3
- Ipswich 1-2
- Bournemouth 0-1
- Rangers 1-1
- Liverpool 3-6
- Nottingham Forest 0-1
- Wolves 2-2

14 out of 29 matches. We've come back to win 4 of them, all during our best run when things were good and most of our players were fit. We've lost 8 of those, drawn only twice.

It's true, we don't win many close games, but our issue isn't that we're manic and attacking like crazy even when we're winning. It's that we have too much work to do to recover a game. When your squad is decimated like ours, that's going to become that much harder.
 
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tommysvr said:
This season we've not won after taking the lead in these games:

- Leicester 1-1
- Brighton 2-3
- Roma 2-2
- Fulham 1-1
- Chelsea 3-4
- Wolves 2-2

So 6 out of 29 matches, only 2 of them losses. I'd argue our bigger issue is that we concede the first goal too often. That's happened in these matches:

- Saudi Sportswashing Machine 1-2
- Arsenal 0-1
- Coventry 2-1
- Brentford 3-1
- West Ham 4-1
- Crystal Palace 0-1
- Aston Villa 4-1
- Galatasaray 2-3
- Ipswich 1-2
- Bournemouth 0-1
- Rangers 1-1
- Liverpool 3-6
- Nottingham Forest 0-1
- Wolves 2-2

14 out of 29 matches. We've come back to win 4 of them, all during our best run when things were good and most of our players were fit. We've lost 8 of those, drawn only twice.

It's true, we don't win many close games, but our issue isn't that we're manic and attacking like crazy even when we're winning. It's that we have too much work to do to recover a game. When your squad is decimated like ours, that's going to become that much harder.
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All excellent points, however we have too much to do in every game under Ange and hence why you are seeing this dismal injury record. The system is flawed as it can’t carry consistency or carry players through the season.

There is no rest periods in the game and that’s why get dismantled after conceding the first goal.

The points on the board and our win/loss record shows this
 
metalgear said:
so ange had no choice but to play austin and reguillon.
guess what they are good enough for angeball
same situation with spence

unpopular opinion i know but it is enough evidence for me to say Ange isn't particularly good at picking his players or understanding their fitness levels (reintroducing cuti and vdv).
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Reggie has been really good, madness he’s not taken some of the load off of others in the first half of the season.
 
Baleforce said:
Reggie has been really good, madness he’s not taken some of the load off of others in the first half of the season.
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He only used Spence because he absolutely had to then he put in a shift the fans and the media praised him and pretty much talked Spence into a starting slot. Spence now has earned the trust and hopefully when everyone is fit again he gets rotated fairly.
 
On the Ange In or Out argument, I'm still advocating to keep him until at least the end of the season to get more insights into what he can brong to the table. Some very interesting data points for both arguments from today's game:

For the OUTs
A question mark on the manager's judgment in some areas. An implication that Ange has been making this squad smaller than it really is by leaving a couple out in the cold unnecessarily. A big question about his plan A tactics, based on how the full-backs, centre mids and defensive line played second half to gain control. They didn't play the normal Ange way at all, especially Reggie who stayed wide and showed us all how our full-backs could play, if allowed.

For the INs
Some strong indications that the top to bottom Ange philosophy is having a positive impact on the entire squad. A huge endorsement from the players to their manager that they are behind him despite a horrible run of results. A willingness to really dig deep for their manager, through illness and injury.

What we mustn't do is use the result against Ange though. It was always going to be a stretch to win this one against a form PL team.
 
Yiddo said:
I don't think you could justify sacking him right now what with all of the injuries and sickness etc. I think give him until the end of the season see how we do in the cups and how we are looking when everyone is back and fit and go from there.
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If form keeps up it is then relegation and we can not afford that
 
Yiddo said:
I don't think you could justify sacking him right now what with all of the injuries and sickness etc. I think give him until the end of the season see how we do in the cups and how we are looking when everyone is back and fit and go from there.
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That’s exactly what we should do. And if he can’t build some momentum or get the full squad playing well at the back end of the season then we should consider things more seriously.
 
metalgear said:
so ange had no choice but to play austin and reguillon.
guess what they are good enough for angeball
same situation with spence

unpopular opinion i know but it is enough evidence for me to say Ange isn't particularly good at picking his players or understanding their fitness levels (reintroducing cuti and vdv).
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It’s been pretty widely reported that it was a different injury for Cuti. That’s just bad luck and not Ange’s fault.
 
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