Ange in or out?

[tommysvr]

I would honestly love to know where this confidence for Ange comes from, based on what he has shown over the course of almost two seasons as our manager.

It comes from 15ish years of watching him. Every time he's taken a step up, he's eventually succeeded. When he quit the Australian national team job on the eve of a World Cup to manage Yokohama, I thought he was a bit crazy (I'm an Aussie and was living in Japan then too). But he proved me very wrong.

I understand many don't have that perspective and even people who do would still disagree with me. But there hasn't been even a whisper of him being under pressure from the board or players, so I also feel confident that I'm not alone in my views.

 

[afsoc4life]

Iraola has shown over the two seasons he has been here, he has far more potential than Ange in my opinion.
I can’t speak for all fans but I would certainly show far more patience as he has shown a far higher degree of competency than our current incumbent.

The meltdown is because the manager is not good enough

I beg to disagree. I think people overrate the quality of our squad and I think you are under the grass is greener syndrome. Iraola has done well, yes. I think he looks good because he is at Bournemouth.

 

[veryoldspur]

I beg to disagree. I think people overrate the quality of our squad and I think you are under the grass is greener syndrome. Iraola has done well, yes. I think he looks good because he is at Bournemouth.

We have a top five squad and bottom five manager

 

[Dicko]

There gonna be a full blown meltdown on here IF Iraola mentions that he doesn't want to leave Bournemouth and we have to face rumours of Southgate or Dyche etc.!!!*





*I mean, he probably does but just saying

 

[sirharolddove]

The wider point that I'm trying to make is that when Spurs do something right, it's blind luck or some other divine intervention. When we do something wrong, it's a disaster and because the manager is clueless, the system is awful, our captain should never be a captain etc etc.

I'd be happy with Iraola because I think he's got a similar aggressive setup to Ange, which I like. But we would absolutely see similar issues play out and our fans have shown they don't have any patience for a manager to build a system and work out the kinks.

we might do if there was any sign those 'kinks' were being worked out. so far, he seems to be unaware there are any kinks.

 

[Mrs Vert]

The wider point that I'm trying to make is that when Spurs do something right, it's blind luck or some other divine intervention. When we do something wrong, it's a disaster and because the manager is clueless, the system is awful, our captain should never be a captain etc etc.

I'd be happy with Iraola because I think he's got a similar aggressive setup to Ange, which I like. But we would absolutely see similar issues play out and our fans have shown they don't have any patience for a manager to build a system and work out the kinks.

But I think we have seen Ange system in 2yrs and I don't like it. We are getting worse.

We rarely can play a full game of decent football. 20min in patches if that and that's usually when we are a chasing. From memory I think we performed well for long periods away to Leciester and Necastle and City. Happy to see if there is a higher percentage.

 

[Daisuk]

It comes from 15ish years of watching him. Every time he's taken a step up, he's eventually succeeded. When he quit the Australian national team job on the eve of a World Cup to manage Yokohama, I thought he was a bit crazy (I'm an Aussie and was living in Japan then too). But he proved me very wrong.

I understand many don't have that perspective and even people who do would still disagree with me. But there hasn't been even a whisper of him being under pressure from the board or players, so I also feel confident that I'm not alone in my views.

I appreciate he has a history of comebacks, and unlike some on here I don't believe he's clueless, but do you really believe he's got the ability to turn this around? If so, what would it take? More time? A longer stint with players just recently back from injury? What is he missing?

 

[braineclipse]

I appreciate he has a history of comebacks, and unlike some on here I don't believe he's clueless, but do you really believe he's got the ability to turn this around? If so, what would it take? More time? A longer stint with players just recently back from injury? What is he missing?

He needs to get us playing some really good football again, and fairly soon. He also needs to progress in the EL.

But he's running out of time, and every lacklustre performance we put out that time diminishes further. He may be at the "has to win the EL" stage already.

 

[Mikey10]

we might do if there was any sign those 'kinks' were being worked out. so far, he seems to be unaware there are any kinks.

Other than making subs (often too late), he certainly doesn’t iron out ‘kinks’ during games. The contrast yesterday between Iraola (consulting with his coaching staff, watching iPad clips and then reacting, issuing instructions, urging his players on) and Ange (isolated, arms folded, shaking his head) was stark.

There are different ways of managing, but Ange’s approach on the sideline is, for me, indicative of how he struggles at this level. The PL requires almost constant in-game reaction. For us, it’s “always the same plan.”

 

[fernadez]

Their press was unbelievable, but beat that and they were so open in the midfield. I remember one ball from LB into Bergvall in the centre circle and he had no one within 20 yards of him.

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if Spurs gave up a 2-0 lead to a team struggling in 13th? If Iraola is our next manager, we will 100% be back here in about 15 months.

Edit: here it is

https://imgur.com/QSnZhxA

https://imgur.com/TU4mpwx

One pass from deep in our own corner and the ball ends up on the edge of the box. Utter meltdown if that were Spurs!

If he came and we consistently gave up chances and conceded goals because of it, I would expect the manager to rectify it. Same way I expect Ange to after 2 years in charge which he hasn't. I don't know if Bournemouth routinely concede from this situation, the fact that they are 8th suggest not. Add to that we have better players, which would help mitigate it further.
The issue is not being countered against, scored against or even losing, the issue is the lack of tactical progression, mitagation and adaptation.

I'll take that bet about Iraola and 15th months. He's be in situ the same amount of time as our manager, with inferior player and resources but has his team set up better. There is no way he'll lose 18 games in his second full season. Lets not forget that they dismantled us yesterday simply by launching it behind our full backs, that's all it takes for Ange's system to be on it's knees.

 

[tommysvr]

But I think we have seen Ange system in 2yrs and I don't like it. We are getting worse.

We rarely can play a full game of decent football. 20min in patches if that and that's usually when we are a chasing. From memory I think we performed well for long periods away to Leciester and Necastle and City. Happy to see if there is a higher percentage.

I agree, especially this season. But I can only keep going back to my same points: Ange’s teams historically have struggled…until suddenly they don’t; injuries have robbed us of so much of that progression that we would have otherwise seen.

I appreciate he has a history of comebacks, and unlike some on here I don't believe he's clueless, but do you really believe he's got the ability to turn this around? If so, what would it take? More time? A longer stint with players just recently back from injury? What is he missing?

It’s a fair question. I said up front when I wanted him appointed that we needed at least 3 seasons to see the impact, so more time and more time with a full(ish) squad. I appreciate it’s hard when you’re watching us struggle every week, but that’s why I haven’t ridden the waves of results as much as others.

 

[billyiddo]

What an odd post. We were the home team, basically at full strength, we got 2 lucky breaks to even the game, never looked in control but somehow your narrative is that Iraola and his Bournemouth side had the bad day? Dear oh dear.

He's clutching at straws

 

[Robspur12]

I think we have to look elsewhere if we do go looking.

Why Steff? He has many similarities to Poch even to the point where his teams take about a season to fully embed his style. I could give a a narrative of other reasons why I think Iraola is similar but am interested in why you think he wouldn't work here. I have to say I think Poch would work wonders with this squad too.

 

[fernadez]

It comes from 15ish years of watching him. Every time he's taken a step up, he's eventually succeeded. When he quit the Australian national team job on the eve of a World Cup to manage Yokohama, I thought he was a bit crazy (I'm an Aussie and was living in Japan then too). But he proved me very wrong.

I understand many don't have that perspective and even people who do would still disagree with me. But there hasn't been even a whisper of him being under pressure from the board or players, so I also feel confident that I'm not alone in my views.

Maybe Ange is a case study in The Peter Principle

 

[tommysvr]

If he came and we consistently gave up chances and conceded goals because of it, I would expect the manager to rectify it. Same way I expect Ange to after 2 years in charge which he hasn't. I don't know if Bournemouth routinely concede from this situation, the fact that they are 8th suggest not. Add to that we have better players, which would help mitigate it further.
The issue is not being countered against, scored against or even losing, the issue is the lack of tactical progression, mitagation and adaptation.

I'll take that bet about Iraola and 15th months. He's be in situ the same amount of time as our manager, with inferior player and resources but has his team set up better. There is no way he'll lose 18 games in his second full season. Lets not forget that they dismantled us yesterday simply by launching it behind our full backs, that's all it takes for Ange's system to be on it's knees.

But I don’t think we’re seeing Ange’s system at all. We’ve been robbed of it by injuries.

The idea that Ange doesn’t adapt or fix things is so simplistic. He seems to have done alright with corners.

 

[Surfless]

It feels from the outside looking in that the whole plan now is "fit players get us out of this" - and I wonder if this might be destined for failure by the fact that rusty players are returning to a team low on overall confidence.

I'm sure it's been said to death but a loss Thursday will almost inevitably trigger "The Mason Clause" for the final few games of the season while the hierarchy tries to find some other nutter who wants to work within the constraints at Spurs.

I'll be gutted to see Ange go, as the idea of him succeeding is a romantic and tottenham-esque notion, and what he stands for is a very pure form of the sport on paper. What has happened to him this season is largely out of his control, no matter what the neysayers think.

I'd love him to have one more preseason, one more attempt at a full squad fit and roaring, and one more transfer window as I think the quality as suited to the way we play has improved window after window.

Honestly unless he wins the Europa League I seriously doubt he will get the chance.

What's Poch up to?

 

[fernadez]

But I don’t think we’re seeing Ange’s system at all. We’ve been robbed of it by injuries.

The idea that Ange doesn’t adapt or fix things is so simplistic. He seems to have done alright with corners.

We routinely give up the same chances and goals game after game. Exactly the same chances and goals. The idea is simplistic cause the evidence is there for everyone to see.

 

[thfcsteff]

Why Steff? He has many similarities to Poch even to the point where his teams take about a season to fully embed his style. I could give a a narrative of other reasons why I think Iraola is similar but am interested in why you think he wouldn't work here. I have to say I think Poch would work wonders with this squad too.

Simply put, Iraola is a lot more direct, and tends to counter more like a Conte side IMV.
Poch? We have to let it go IMO (sadly). We blew that a while back, which we both know is a factor in why we are where we are.

 

[Mrs Vert]

I agree, especially this season. But I can only keep going back to my same points: Ange’s teams historically have struggled…until suddenly they don’t; injuries have robbed us of so much of that progression that we would have otherwise seen.



It’s a fair question. I said up front when I wanted him appointed that we needed at least 3 seasons to see the impact, so more time and more time with a full(ish) squad. I appreciate it’s hard when you’re watching us struggle every week, but that’s why I haven’t ridden the waves of results as much as others.

I wanted to give him 3 seasons too and was ready to ride the bumps that would come. But I've changed my mind now, as how he has dealt with the challenges and seeing how I feel we don't address the problems and us getting worse Is why I now want him gone. And players just not getting better.

Again I feel like whatever manager we get next, will still get the problems cos of ENIC. I just think even if we get to see the promise land, these are not the ones to get us there.

What a joyful post.

 

[Robspur12]

The issue is not being countered against, scored against or even losing,

It is all of those things too.

the issue is the lack of tactical progression, mitagation and adaptation.

Agreed and these things lead to the above.