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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 88 73.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 32 26.7%
  • Total voters
    120
Mikey10 said:
Today’s press conference is interesting.

He says Romero’s comments from a couple of days ago are “another excuse”. He’s “sick of excuses”; that if there are players in the dressing room who want an excuse then “they’re not the right type. We’re in a fight here” and says he’s not “worried about bruising egos.”

Very bullish in tone.
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I like it. It may end up being a page in the last chapter in the book about Ange at Spurs in the end. I still like it.
 
Mikey10 said:
Today’s press conference is interesting.

He says Romero’s comments from a couple of days ago are “another excuse”. He’s “sick of excuses”; that if there are players in the dressing room who want an excuse then “they’re not the right type. We’re in a fight here” and says he’s not “worried about bruising egos.”

Very bullish in tone.
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Wasn't Conte's rant around a Southampton game too?
Sounds like another manager's stint might end at the same place as well....
 
thfcsteff said:
King played his debut season alongside Naybet, essentially an on-field 30+ coach. Back then (and earlier with Campbell) there was not the constant fan scrutiny. I would suggest that currently, AP does not feel he has a young CB of that calibre. I like Dorrington but imagine, one mistake and social media would bury him. I think it is reasonable to protect youth in this moment unless they are fully ready. Moore, Gray and Bergvall is quite a good youth rep IMO.
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You're obviously entitled to your opinion (and Postecoglou to his) but I strongly disagree. The scrutiny thing is just an excuse. Dorrington or anybody else will make a lot more than one mistake and the social media will bury him but that's something all players have to go through now, no matter how old they are by the way. You can't protect them from that and you can't protect them by not playing them. If anything, people are more indulgent with teenagers than they are with inexperienced players in their early 20s. It's always been tough to break into a senior side, no matter when, no matter where.

Again, if you're happy with the way he's handling this particular side of the squad management, good for you. Same goes for the players themselves, of course. Me, I'd rather we played Lankshear for instance than Son upfront, even if that meant losing the game - particularly from a guy who keeps saying he's got the next few years in mind. For me, there's no question about his boldness when it comes to tactics, I just wish he applied the same principles to his team selections.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Yeah but that's what they all say, isn't it? There's always a good reason not to play an untested talent at a certain level. We had that conversation all the time in the late 90s early 2000s, when the club were doing poorly in the league. A lot of people thought that the youngsters would hardly be any worse than the established first team players and, inevitably, the manager would say that it wouldn't be fair on them to throw them into the team into these circumstances, etc.

There's just three points I'd like to make here. First, Sol Campbell (Judas) and Ledley King, two of arguably the best defenders this club ever produced, got into the team at a time when we were really struggling. When you really believe in a kid and you think they have talent, then you play them. It's as simple as that.

That leads me to my second point: Postecoglou has always said he was in for the long run, he was a big picture kind of guy. Then, in the middle of an injury crisis, why not give your younger players a chance? You can't say on the one hand that you have the next five years in mind in every decision you make (as in signing young players) and then claim you have to win the next game. So far, he's rather played established players out of position than given a start to someone younger. Quite frankly, I thought he'd be braver.

Third, there are a lot of managers out there who are showing more guts when it comes to giving youth a chance in the first team. I'm not saying he should field a U-21 line-up but we're supposed to have some great talents at this club and if you don't play them in the middle of an injury crisis and when you're allegedly not under pressure then when? Only way you'll know if a kid is ready is to show some faith in him, in my opinion.
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The answer is either the players in our underage teams are vastly overrated and are not close to ready or Ange is not particularly inclined to play youth players who aren't already somewhat established.
 
thfcsteff said:
King played his debut season alongside Naybet, essentially an on-field 30+ coach. Back then (and earlier with Campbell) there was not the constant fan scrutiny. I would suggest that currently, AP does not feel he has a young CB of that calibre. I like Dorrington but imagine, one mistake and social media would bury him. I think it is reasonable to protect youth in this moment unless they are fully ready. Moore, Gray and Bergvall is quite a good youth rep IMO.
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I don't think that's really true. Gray has played multiple games at FB and been abused defensively in pretty much of all of them but the fan base has been fairly understanding and I wouldn't say I've seen any real derision or questioning of him as a player.
 
paxtonwolf said:
Been saying this for a while. I fully expect us to succumb to Soton on Sunday night, they will be more up for it than us, and then some point on Monday the trigger will be pulled

I am quote confident a replacement is provisionally lined up, just a phone call away ready to take charge for the United game
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I can't see him going till the Summer

Levy's "we've got our Tottenham back" comments last year looked cringy at the time, they are just embarrassing now looking back.

But it's out Levy in an even more awkward position in giving him more time than he normally would
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Mate
I’m not even talking about you
Your like mid level negative at best
There are many more who wait with baited breath for a poor result to return
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There has to be a balance. All along you were saying judge after 10 games (despite highlighting after defensive record btw even though it wasn’t 10 games) so is it now ok to judge the progress of the team and manager? You also said people shouldn’t judge the Werner signing at the time when the decision was made to bring him back as our transfer business wasn’t concluded, well given we signed 3x 18 year olds, 1x 19 year old plus Werner and Solanke, is it now fair to see it wasn’t the best move to bring him in again?

My personal preference is for Ange to adapt and get better rather than sack him but honestly I feel if we lose on Sunday to Soton and it’s another poor performance then he’s a goner. I don’t think Levy will even consider the fact that we’ve got a quarter final on Thursday.
 
braineclipse said:
Been saying for a while that things will get worse or the bad streak at least will continue before it gets better.

To me this game doesn't really change anything.

He won't go into practical mode (somewhat depending on what you mean by practical mode). He will succeed or fail doing things his way.
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Spot on. This game, with all the injuries, compounded by the optics of not playing lankshear, not having (or trusting) Spence etc. was not going to be that ‘game’ changer. We have to hang in. Again. But you can’t have a painful rebuild without some pain.
 
Ange in 100% but back him in January


Ha. As if. So I think we will have broken another one before the Carling Cup final.
 
He's clearly a man under pressure. If we lose the next two, I suspect he will go soon after Christmas. Win the next two, and all is rosy for a while.
While I love the man, I do think his style leaves us wide open, and Mr Gogolack made an excellent point which - if I got it right - is that Ange's need to have defenders sprinting at ludicrous speeds just isn't tenable in the PL, where the overall level of fitness and athleticism is so high. It means even the fittest, fastest players will break down. At the end of the day, it's lovely to have a manager you like, like big Martin Jol, like Ange, but my life is sweeter when we have a manager with a better win ratio.
 
Bishop said:
I don't think that's really true. Gray has played multiple games at FB and been abused defensively in pretty much of all of them but the fan base has been fairly understanding and I wouldn't say I've seen any real derision or questioning of him as a player.
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Gray has played multiple games at full back and mostly done fine defensively, but stuggled one vs one defensively against quick good dribblers. Yet part of the fan base describes that as him getting abused defensively.
 
Jurgen the German said:
There has to be a balance. All along you were saying judge after 10 games (despite highlighting after defensive record btw even though it wasn’t 10 games) so is it now ok to judge the progress of the team and manager? You also said people shouldn’t judge the Werner signing at the time when the decision was made to bring him back as our transfer business wasn’t concluded, well given we signed 3x 18 year olds, 1x 19 year old plus Werner and Solanke, is it now fair to see it wasn’t the best move to bring him in again?

My personal preference is for Ange to adapt and get better rather than sack him but honestly I feel if we lose on Sunday to Soton and it’s another poor performance then he’s a goner. I don’t think Levy will even consider the fact that we’ve got a quarter final on
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Jurgen the German said:
There has to be a balance. All along you were saying judge after 10 games (despite highlighting after defensive record btw even though it wasn’t 10 games) so is it now ok to judge the progress of the team and manager? You also said people shouldn’t judge the Werner signing at the time when the decision was made to bring him back as our transfer business wasn’t concluded, well given we signed 3x 18 year olds, 1x 19 year old plus Werner and Solanke, is it now fair to see it wasn’t the best move to bring him in again?

My personal preference is for Ange to adapt and get better rather than sack him but honestly I feel if we lose on Sunday to Soton and it’s another poor performance then he’s a goner. I don’t think Levy will even consider the fact that we’ve got a quarter final on Thursday.
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There has to be a balance
That balance is celebrating wins and being annoyed at defeats
Not lurking like an evil villain waiting for the wheels to fall off to day “told you so”

And in Werner, what would we do without him?
As I said at the time he is a squad players who won’t start many games and give Moore another year to develop. Great idea

Obviously having one of our 5 signings injured almost instantly in Odebert put him higher up the ordee
Richy being made of Swiss cheese bumps him up again
And Moore catching an alien illness meant he was suddenly second in line
And we have to stick with son who can’t even trap a bag of cement anymore
What would be the alternative this squad now… maybe play Reggie there
It’s the gamble the club took for longer term gain
Personally im fine with it as I expected some pain
 
Mr Gogolak said:
You're obviously entitled to your opinion (and Postecoglou to his) but I strongly disagree. The scrutiny thing is just an excuse. Dorrington or anybody else will make a lot more than one mistake and the social media will bury him but that's something all players have to go through now, no matter how old they are by the way. You can't protect them from that and you can't protect them by not playing them. If anything, people are more indulgent with teenagers than they are with inexperienced players in their early 20s. It's always been tough to break into a senior side, no matter when, no matter where.

Again, if you're happy with the way he's handling this particular side of the squad management, good for you. Same goes for the players themselves, of course. Me, I'd rather we played Lankshear for instance than Son upfront, even if that meant losing the game - particularly from a guy who keeps saying he's got the next few years in mind. For me, there's no question about his boldness when it comes to tactics, I just wish he applied the same principles to his team selections.
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I'd love to see Lankshear too. My feeling is that his debut sending off did not do him any favours with regards to being trusted to ride out bricky stuff in pressure games, and given the pressure the club is under, perhaps Ange is taking the view of 10 mins here and there versus the risks involved. Again, I think he'd be better uptop than Sonny, but what I've gone into there is the only conclusion I can arrive at.

And yes, we agree to disagree broadly, albeit we both want the same for our club. As ever a good discussion!
 
Bishop said:
I don't think that's really true. Gray has played multiple games at FB and been abused defensively in pretty much of all of them but the fan base has been fairly understanding and I wouldn't say I've seen any real derision or questioning of him as a player.
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Agreed.
Archie Gray is not a.n.other though. There's a reason he cost big money. He is IMO a rare teenager. Personally, I don't think anyone can job lot the academy/young players.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'd love to see Lankshear too. My feeling is that his debut sending off did not do him any favours with regards to being trusted to ride out bricky stuff in pressure games, and given the pressure the club is under, perhaps Ange is taking the view of 10 mins here and there versus the risks involved. Again, I think he'd be better uptop than Sonny, but what I've gone into there is the only conclusion I can arrive at.

And yes, we agree to disagree broadly, albeit we both want the same for our club. As ever a good discussion!
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Ange is massively massively missing a trick there with him
He is a presence
Ange ball needs that target to draw players
I’d rather play a toddler than Sonny as a striker in this kind of football
But these decisions are what will make or break Anges tenure
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ange is massively massively missing a trick there with him
He is a presence
Ange ball needs that target to draw players
I’d rather play a toddler than Sonny as a striker in this kind of football
But these decisions are what will make or break Anges tenure
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There has to be a reason. I wonder if we will ever know it.
 
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