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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 87 73.1%

  • Out

    Votes: 32 26.9%
  • Total voters
    119
Bedfordspurs said:
And he isn’t a world class defender
He is a very good player though
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For me, Spence has to be first choice right back. Porro is tired but he’s just not a very good defender. I watched Spence v Salah on Sunday. Several times, Spence held him up, showed him wide and dispossessed Salah. Just really good defending. It’s something Porro doesn’t do and hasn’t done since his first game when he got caught square by Harvey Barnes (I think). Spence does also offer a lot offensively albeit not as much as Porro. However, he’s an all round better full back.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
And others
Buy I do think some senior pakyers haven’t fitted as well
Let’s pick on Maddison… went it goes well he is great
When it’s tough…. He is not even noticeable (at least sonny tries to get involved)
I still do not believe that Ange is the reasons Romero frequently leaves his man and goes wandering, but it’s happened now for 18 months
Could be younger players are more able to be coached into new ways of playing
What I will say is that Maddison and son excelled in teams that played counter attacking football so really aren’t used to seeing the ball as Michael s they do here

The ones that really worry me are Bissouma and Bentacur. A hugely key role and for every good 60 minutes we see them play they will have a bad next 10 before being subbed. That may well be because of the work they are being asked to do but bissouma passed the ball to two pool players in the first 17 minutes on Sunday. That can’t be match fatigue but could be something else including technical capabilities
It’s why I’d love to see, but don’t expect it, the following … my panacea window
We recall Philips just to have that extra body here
We sell Richy for whatever we can get and use that money in January to go to Lille to get David and Gomes, the latter is HG and is a ball playing DM. The former is a striker in the Defoe mould IMO. Both are stars we lack players in that can do the basics for Ange ball
Then in the summer we keg Bissouma go and extend Bentacurs contract (he is more versatile) and we buy a left back, left wing and another DM
But that’s me planning for the possible as we know
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It is interesting what you highlight about Bissouma and Bentancur; they are indeed falling below what you'd expect. Certainly, not through lack of effort.

I do worry it's because mentally (especially in Bentancur's case) they can't get their head around how attacking Ange is and they are aware of defensive gaps and issues from all the (perhaps more routine/balanced?) coaching they've previously had and they get caught out on one hand wanting to follow orders but on the other hand not wanting to leave the defence exposed and we get the worst of both worlds....

Interesting suggestion for the window: do you think Gomes has the physicality to do well in the PL? Jonathan David would be a good signing, i agree.
 
DeanoAustin said:
For me, Spence has to be first choice right back. Porro is tired but he’s just not a very good defender. I watched Spence v Salah on Sunday. Several times, Spence held him up, showed him wide and dispossessed Salah. Just really good defending. It’s something Porro doesn’t do and hasn’t done since his first game when he got caught square by Harvey Barnes (I think). Spence does also offer a lot offensively albeit not as much as Porro. However, he’s an all round better full back.
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I’d start Spence at right back on Boxing Day for sure
 
glorygloryeze said:
It is interesting what you highlight about Bissouma and Bentancur; they are indeed falling below what you'd expect. Certainly, not through lack of effort.

I do worry it's because mentally (especially in Bentancur's case) they can't get their head around how attacking Ange is and they are aware of defensive gaps and issues from all the (perhaps more routine/balanced?) coaching they've previously had and they get caught out on one hand wanting to follow orders but on the other hand not wanting to leave the defence exposed and we get the worst of both worlds....

Interesting suggestion for the window: do you think Gomes has the physicality to do well in the PL? Jonathan David would be a good signing, i agree.
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No
I think the comment about how we attacks daft imo
every player imo wants to play in an attacking team. Football is about scoring goals and it’s a very very low scoring sport
I think bentacur is miles better than Bissouma in the role because he uses the ball better
By the way he will get a yellow next game and be out of the work we game .. that’s a banker bet
I think in biss case he is just too causal when he thinks he is on top
On the effort front there is some decent footage of the pool game of Bissouma jogging back… repeatedly
That’s a worry because he got overtaken by Solanke in the chase back

On Gomes in less worried about his physicality because he keeps the ball well
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
Because of fine margins
And that’s normal for a team that’s being developed
I’ve tried it avoid saying this but fudge it… this It is so similar to the period when arsenal fans wanting Arteta gone and the club even met with Poch. No idea why they didn’t take him but they were thinking about changing and their fan base wanted it in many cases. Only thing that’s different is that their fans were more vocal in the ground and they had AFTV milking it to
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Im not sure why you keep mentioning the fact that Arsenal nearly got rid of Arteta. The facts are they didn’t and he’s still there. Whether they wanted to get rid of him or not is irrelevant. I’m sure there were periods in nearly every manager’s tenure when the chairman had doubts or second thoughts.
 
thfcsteff said:
But again -and when I asked Skiprat this question they just threw out two line-ups which frankly comprised selections which would be soundly beaten - how do you suggest he changes? I am genuinely interested to learn if there is something you think he could do. Again if we even consider he would change. What system -and with which players- could he deploy?
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1. Don’t push the full backs so far forward.

2. At 2-1, take stock, don’t be so gung ho, be cautious for the final 3 mins until HT then reassess, don’t let Spence go bombing forward therefore leaving us exposed.

3. Don’t set the team to attack attack attack for 90 mins, pick your moments. Be more compact and solid AT CERTAIN POINTS IN THE GAME. Not for the whole match.
 
Jurgen the German said:
1. Don’t push the full backs so far forward.

2. At 2-1, take stock, don’t be so gung ho, be cautious for the final 3 mins until HT then reassess, don’t let Spence go bombing forward therefore leaving us exposed.

3. Don’t set the team to attack attack attack for 90 mins, pick your moments. Be more compact and solid AT CERTAIN POINTS IN THE GAME. Not for the whole match.
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but he wont do this and this is where i need to hear from the big Ange fans. What makes them so sure it WILL work? Just sign better players? so it'll be like this until next season? and what sort of calibre players are needed, are they attainable for a club notorious for not splashing on First XI needs? The Ange In fans are so, i dont know, tunnel vision? Like him they're absolute in their convictions but based on what? I keep seeing stats about goals and chances etc which is great, but stats dont lie and the fact is we're 11th. And the issues called out have been in existence since January.
 
Mikey10 said:
This is what is now frustrating me. With relatively minor tweaks I still believe he could have success and be with us for some time. Unfortunately, be appears to be an ideologue.
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What are the minor tweaks ?
Get another midfielder to drop deeper and ask the full backs to drop deeper too
It’s not minor
It’s quite significant
It’s a huge change to the way we play and press and attack. And imo it’s still unlikely to stop individual errors
And it’s still the same group do 13/14 players being asked to do something that is not what they been coached for the last year and half
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What are the minor tweaks ?
Get another midfielder to drop deeper and ask the full backs to drop deeper too
It’s not minor
It’s quite significant
It’s a huge change to the way we play and press and attack. And imo it’s still unlikely to stop individual errors
And it’s still the same group do 13/14 players being asked to do something that is not what they been coached for the last year and half
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Read between the lines, your most committed/effective player is saying "you have to learn" & "maybe you need to adjust"

Players are just as fickle as fans, we actually have a few in this side that care, and hate losing, Ange needs to manage that.
 
Raziel said:

Read between the lines, your most committed/effective player is saying "you have to learn" & "maybe you need to adjust"

Players are just as fickle as fans, we actually have a few in this side that care, and hate losing, Ange needs to manage that.
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I'd say read further between the lines and see that Deki is talking about players making smarter in-game decisions. I think some people believe that Ange has literally scripted them to play every minute in one single way. Not true and there's plenty of evidence this season, especially when we have our starting defence in place.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'd say read further between the lines and see that Deki is talking about players making smarter in-game decisions. I think some people believe that Ange has literally scripted them to play every minute in one single way. Not true and there's plenty of evidence this season, especially when we have our starting defence in place.
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They do
The lack of marking of a player is tactical rather than a player not doing the basics… really
 
thfcsteff said:
I'd say read further between the lines and see that Deki is talking about players making smarter in-game decisions. I think some people believe that Ange has literally scripted them to play every minute in one single way. Not true and there's plenty of evidence this season, especially when we have our starting defence in place.
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Always opinions mate, players don't like losing & conceding 6 goals, you (manager) have to help them (and that's not an in/out statement)
 
Jurgen the German said:
But someone will just say that’s too small a sample size. We only deal with stats that make the manager and club look good thank you.
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Well we’re undoubtedly the most charitable club in the league, kindly gifting our opponents the lead almost every time we have visitors! In fact we haven’t been this generous since 1994, back when Aussie Ossie Ardiles was our gaffer :D

Tottenham have conceded the opening goal in 14 different home games in the Premier League in 2024; the joint-most ever by a team in a calendar year.

To break this record, you have to concede lots of goals. But you also can’t concede so many that you get relegated. So, you are likely to be a relegation-threatened team who survive but then start the following season badly, too.

It really is something for Tottenham to have equalled a record also held by Crystal Palace in 2017 plus Ipswich and Spurs themselves in 1994 when also harbouring hopes of getting back into the Champions League and ending their trophy drought. But this is Ange Postecoglou’s Tottenham, and they are here to entertain.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What are the minor tweaks ?
Get another midfielder to drop deeper and ask the full backs to drop deeper too
It’s not minor
It’s quite significant
It’s a huge change to the way we play and press and attack. And imo it’s still unlikely to stop individual errors
And it’s still the same group do 13/14 players being asked to do something that is not what they been coached for the last year and half
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Relatively minor tweaks, as I said - relative to him getting the sack, which I think is his other option.
 
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