Ange in or out?

[Muttley]

Seriously doubt if form what I know of football
And again.. what players are you gonna get to play a different way

I just remember Mason unscrambling some heads, and putting players into an orthrodox shape with simpler roles and letting them play to their strengths. It's what Harry R was great at. The response took a few weeks but took shape quickly.

Yes, but what if it's 15 players with 6 different systems, which one do you go with?
I mean I keep hearing every manager has there only system, what's the chances they all know the same system.
I'm very much ange in, mainly because I think the idea of a change of management and a. new system and everything will be golden is to be blunt naive at best.
Where has everyone been for the last x amount of years.

Yeah, there won't be that many main systems though. Even if there were, players would have played under 2 or 3 already.

 

[Robbo]

There's no point sacking him midway through the season unless we're in danger of being relegated. Which, despite our poor form, I'd be extremely surprised if it comes to.

We've gone through enough managers the past 20 years to know the grass isn't neccesarily greener on the other side.

Ange has to stay until the summer, and then it's time to evaluate and see where we stand, IMO.

Regardless of the reason behind it, you can't ignore the injury crisis we're going through either. It's not as easy as just chucking on any 18 year old kid to give our fit first teamers a rest - Gray and Bergwall (and Moore when he's fit) are the exceptions. The others are benched for a reason, and it's not stubbornness.

It does feel like a make or break six months for Ange now, though. Keep playing like we do, with no improvement even with injured players returning, and I can see Levy pulling the plug.

 

[billyiddo]

I'm not typing all out again,

As long as........................ Everything will be golden.
You've been here long enough to that not how it works for us.

Well that's kinda what the game is - you appoint a manager, if he doesn't work out you move on to the next. You don't just stick with one for the sake of it. There's no real need for fans to get so wedded to managers, at least not till they have earned it over a few years. Just another cog in the wheel

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Watching United shows how changing the manager but not having the right players may mean another period of change
And of course the new wolves guy may show the opposite

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I just remember Mason unscrambling some heads, and putting players into an orthrodox shape with simpler roles and letting them play to their strengths. It's what Harry R was great at. The response took a few weeks but took shape quickly.
Yeah, there won't be that many main systems though. Even if there were, players would have played under 2 or 3 already.

What’s Amorim doing at United

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'm not typing all out again,

As long as........................ Everything will be golden.
You've been here long enough to that not how it works for us.

I remember AVB and Sherwood, and then Poch. We just need to get the right new Poch. Someone who can bring 5 years of progress and unify the club and fans

 

[Muttley]

What’s Amorim doing at United

Not watching the game.

 

[Mikey10]

What’s Amorim doing at United

They are a s hitshow from top to bottom. They make us look well-run.

 

[glasgowspur]

Well that's kinda what the game is - you appoint a manager, if he doesn't work out you move on to the next. You don't just stick with one for the sake of it. There's no real need for fans to get so wedded to managers, at least not till they have earned it over a few years. Just another cog in the wheel

I'm not wedded to ange, not by a long chalk.
It's the "if we just do this" and "this guy will be great" not mention the rose tinted backwards look at nuno and Mason that get me.
I want the best manager we can get, and tbh some of the names being thrown about would be lucky to last three months, for various reasons.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Watching United shows how changing the manager but not having the right players may mean another period of change
And of course the new wolves guy may show the opposite

Our squad is much better than United's

 

[glasgowspur]

I remember AVB and Sherwood, and then Poch. We just need to get the right new Poch. Someone who can bring 5 years of progress and unify the club and fans

You don't get time to make five years of progress, and if you could make five years of progress at spurs in 18 months you wouldn't be at spurs.

 

[fernadez]

My main issue still remains his lack of management. He buy himself more time sticking to his ideology but modifying it for circumstances.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not watching the game.

They are poor and all over the place
Conceded direct from a corner again
It’s not his team of course

 

[Muttley]

They are poor and all over the place
Conceded direct from a corner again
It’s not his team of course

But has he stuck with the 3 at the back shape he played against us? Is he trying to create space all over the pitch only to find that is his undoing with these players?

It's back to what I've said loads. The best managers will work towards their preferred tactical system, not start with it.

It's going back to that muscle memory that players have developed since a young age. It's about keeping the shape and the tactics simple and letting players play to their strengths.

 

[billyiddo]

My main issue still remains his lack of management. He buy himself more time sticking to his ideology but modifying it for circumstances.

I'm not fussed about him always sticking to his plan - I'm more concerned that we very rarely see a functioning plan and on top of that I have concerns that his plan even if fully bedded in wouldn't go anywhere at this level.

 

[Kandi1977]

The problem for me with the ‘squad building’ argument is that it seems to ignore the here and now too much - and, as we are seeing, a club does that at their peril.

Do we think that Romero will stick around for another 2-3 years to see how the squad evolves? Will Porro? Will Dragusin’s agent allow him to? If we can’t hang on to these players then they have to be replaced and ‘the project’ cycle continues…

This time 2 or 3 years ago we were being told that Parrott, Edwards and others were the future, similar to what we are hearing about Bergvall, Gray and Lankshear now. Statistics suggest that if one of those present three come through as a regular and reliable first team starter we’ll be doing well.

By all means build quietly for the future, but there only really is the here and now if you are going to survive in the PL, as Ange is discovering. He’s spoken about a culture of ‘excuses’ at the club this week; ‘the project’ seems probably the biggest one of all to me.

If we had a "normal" amount of injuries, we wouldn't be in this position, and no one would question the transfers. People are now blaming everyone and everything for events no one can be blamed for!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But has he stuck with the 3 at the back shape he played against us? Is he trying to create space all over the pitch only to find that is his undoing with these players?

It's back to what I've said loads. The best managers will work towards their preferred tactical system, not start with it.

It's going back to that muscle memory that players have developed since a young age. It's about keeping the shape and the tactics simple and letting players play to their strengths.

He did
But it’s changed as they’d re down to 10

 

[Gutter Boy]

You don't get time to make five years of progress, and if you could make five years of progress at spurs in 18 months you wouldn't be at spurs.

I meant Poch kept us making progress for 5 years (arguably 4.5). We were constantly getting better, there was always a sense of a positive direction of travel. Whereas we are much worse now than we were 12 months ago

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If we had a "normal" amount of injuries, we wouldn't be in this position, and no one would question the transfers. People are now blaming everyone and everything for events no one can be blamed for!

Yep
No coincidence the teams at the top this year have the least injuries and the first time Chelsea have had to play back to back to back with their first team they have had bad results
Very few teams it seems are able to play with the squad they have this year without more breaks in their squad

 

[Bishop]

I'm not ready to say Ange out yet but truthfully there's nothing about what he's doing right now that's giving me any confidence. He's not being innovative, he's just being stubborn and banging his head against the same bit of wall repeatedly.

I honestly don't need to win every week, I don't even need good performances every week but I do need to see that a coach is learning about his side's deficiencies and attempting even just attempting to mitigate them and I just don't see that with Ange.

We've had the unadjusted high line with the FBs tucking in leaving the space outside for the opposition spare man overload present in every game this season and and many last season, hell it might well have been present since his first game in charge but he's never addressed it or if he has the adjustment has been completely ineffective. There's been a minimum of a year to try and do something about it but game after game we see through same things. Game after game our defenders are constantly defending facing our own goal making desperate last minute lunges chasing 4 or more attackers and again we've never attempted to make the subtle adjustments to combat this.

I get it, he has his system and philosophy and he wants to instill it in the side but he has to realise the players we have aren't good enough to play his system to the level he desires. Ok, so then make the adjustments for now until you can get the squad up to the level required.

If I saw even just that, with the same results I could wholeheartedly back his project because I'd believe. Instead we keep just doing the same things and act confused why it's not working. It's not going to work and I said that in the 2nd game of the season. I'm no footballing savant but its so obvious and it does concern me I can't lie that Ange seems either unaware of the lack of matching quality or he's so headstrong he's just gonna play it anyway.

It's annoying because I think he has done quite a lot well. He's gotten a team of I think fairly average players attempting to play a brand of dominating possession football and at times we have done that quite well. He's increased the base technical level of the squad and despite the many brick results we are always fighting for it, even if lacking in quality. I do believe he has laid some really good foundations, it's just becoming a concern that he might not being able to use them himself due to stubbornness.

I'm not quite there with out, I want him to succeed. I want him to show tactical versatility, I keep saying he's not a million miles off where he should be system wise but that mile might as well be a million because we are so open and easy to play against we need to be creating 10-15 golden chances a game and converting 4-5 of them to consistently win and this squad is of that quality.