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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 87 73.1%

  • Out

    Votes: 32 26.9%
  • Total voters
    119
harr1984 said:
This old classic comes out every time people want a manager gone :D Romero never made rash decisions before Ange came along did he? Porro was a great defender before clueless Ange turned up. Kulu was a much better player before Ange got hold of him. It's Anges fault Son has aged lost his speed and can't beat a player to save his life anymore etc etc....
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So you don't believe a manager can improve a player?
 
Muttley said:
So have a little watch of the goal again. You could be right that Udogie could have got back quicker but he has still been trained to stop at the defensive line. If he goes deeper then he starts to work against our offside strategy. That's probably why he runs at the pace he did. He sees where his defenders are and paces himself to get back to that line. He even slows down as he gets close to the defensive line.

You'll also see that Bentancur and Udogie have total symmetry in the start positions. Kulu is high and wide the right wing, Spence is in the 8/10 position and Johnson is in the middle so Bentancur knows what he has to do. He drops into that inverted full back role and makes the exact same sprint back into the RB area as Udogie does. That is off the training ground.

At least that is what I saw after watching it over and over.

I'd also say it was a great carry and sublime slide rule pass by MGW. We wouldn't even be having this conversation without that class from him.
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I just watched again based on your observations (thanks again). I have to say, taking your viewpoint I find Bentancur even more at fault (albeit what you're saying does make sense watching back).

He's covering that Spence side as if he's Sarr. He's playing as a 6, his first action has to be towards the man on the ball running centrally. I have no idea how Bentancur and Johnson ended up in their relative positions when the ball breaks, we know Brennan is not the best defensively, but shape-wise we're all over the place there. The initial pass from Pape is tired and puts Spence under enormous pressure. But I still cannot understand why Bentancur didn't take on the personal responsibility of moving to close down MGW (who I agree is quality and was a player I really hoped we'd go for and sign in the summer). That's surely his primary responsibility?

Again, appreciate the perspective.
 
harr1984 said:
This old classic comes out every time people want a manager gone :D Romero never made rash decisions before Ange came along did he? Porro was a great defender before clueless Ange turned up. Kulu was a much better player before Ange got hold of him. It's Anges fault Son has aged lost his speed and can't beat a player to save his life anymore etc etc....
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At the risk of sounding very binary mate. I think it’s fair to say that Ange has improved us significantly offensively. Players such as Kulu and Biss were starting to suffer in Conte’s second season when he started to implement a more defensive approach. But unfortunately, Ange appears to be the other side of the same conte coin. Why can’t we have a manager who combines both defence with offence? This is what will do for Ange in the end.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think he is class
But… he would be inheriting a squad that needs more players
No matter who would come in the issues there
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See below, tell me there is a single fudging player in that side that would walk into ours? (not squad, first 11). Yet they lost 4 less games and have 6 more points in half a season

Yes, we have injuries, yes the squad can be/is thin in areas, but its really hard to say a manager with a little more reality around their decision making wouldn't do better.

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Raziel said:
See below, tell me there is a single fudging player in that side that would walk into ours? (not squad, first 11). Yet they lost 4 less games and have 6 more points in half a season

Yes, we have injuries, yes the squad can be/is thin in areas, but its really hard to say a manager with a little more reality around their decision making wouldn't do better.

View attachment 18323
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Kerkez, Semenyo, Kluivert, Smith, Cook, Evanilson all better than any of our eleven

We have a mid table team, an an average squad.

Bournemouths defenders are better than VDV and Romero. Romero is shocking and VDV isn't that much better he's just very very fast but a dreadful defender

Zabarni is wanted by Emirates Marketing Project hell he would walk into our team too.
 
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Raziel said:
See below, tell me there is a single fudging player in that side that would walk into ours? (not squad, first 11). Yet they lost 4 less games and have 6 more points in half a season

Yes, we have injuries, yes the squad can be/is thin in areas, but its really hard to say a manager with a little more reality around their decision making wouldn't do better.

View attachment 18323
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They are playing once a week, Hugh tempo
Not stretching their squad
But their left back would play for us, Kerkez. He will go to pool for a lot of money
We would buy Semenyo if we could too and they have decent pakyers all round
That’s what is making a difference
And I appreciate you don’t agree but let’s pool at Chelsea
They were flying before they suddenly had to play their strongest team 3 times in a week.
The table at the top is the teams with fittest squads right now
Teams have got better as pakyers have returned like Saudi Sportswashing Machine
 
It doesn’t matter who the manager is, if you have four centre backs out, playing an 18 year old midfielder as a CB. Crucially with no rotation in the attacking positions and games thick and fast, any manager would have issues getting a result against the league leaders and away at the fourth place team.

Personally I can see enough in the way we play to give Ange time. His sides are like stripped out race cars: in the development phase they break a lot and there is little room for strain. He is pushing the limits of what is possible to attain a cup winning setup. You don’t attain that by being safe, and doing what everyone else does. You have to push the envelope and refine a different way of playing. That it isn’t easy and instant is kinda the point.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
It doesn’t matter who the manager is, if you have four centre backs out, playing an 18 year old midfielder as a CB. Crucially with no rotation in the attacking positions and games thick and fast, any manager would have issues getting a result against the league leaders and away at the fourth place team.

Personally I can see enough in the way we play to give Ange time. His sides are like stripped out race cars: in the development phase they break a lot and there is little room for strain. He is pushing the limits of what is possible to attain a cup winning setup. You don’t attain that by being safe, and doing what everyone else does. You have to push the envelope and refine a different way of playing. That it isn’t easy and instant is kinda the point.
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Said when our injury problems were getting really bad that things would get worse (poor run extending) before they got better. Still of the same mind as you, let Ange get at least a reasonably fit squad again before making any kind of judgement on what we can do.

And going by reports it seems he may be backed in January. I hope he is.
 
braineclipse said:
Said when our injury problems were getting really bad that things would get worse (poor run extending) before they got better. Still of the same mind as you, let Ange get at least a reasonably fit squad again before making any kind of judgement on what we can do.

And going by reports it seems he may be backed in January. I hope he is.
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Have we looked any better with a reasonably fit squad? And given we've had long periods in both seasons of having most of our defence out is this injury problem an issue of his own making or genuine ridiculous bad luck? Because if it's of his own making he will never have a reasonably fit squad...
 
Robspur12 said:
At the risk of sounding very binary mate. I think it’s fair to say that Ange has improved us significantly offensively. Players such as Kulu and Biss were starting to suffer in Conte’s second season when he started to implement a more defensive approach. But unfortunately, Ange appears to be the other side of the same conte coin. Why can’t we have a manager who combines both defence with offence? This is what will do for Ange in the end.
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We had one of those immediately before we brought in Mourinho mate. He delivered our best average league finish under any manager, achieving CL 4 seasons out of 5 and Europa in his other season. However the chairman sacked him because he had the audacity to want to go through a (much needed) rebuild.
 
Finney Is Back said:
We had one of those immediately before we brought in Mourinho mate. He delivered our best average league finish under any manager, achieving CL 4 seasons out of 5 and Europa in his other season. However the chairman sacked him because he had the audacity to want to go through a (much needed) rebuild.
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It doesn't matter how many times you say that he was sacked because he wanted a rebuild it still won't be true. The rebuild started in the summer before he was sacked, pity the money was wasted though.
 
Kompakted said:
Have we looked any better with a reasonably fit squad? And given we've had long periods in both seasons of having most of our defence out is this injury problem an issue of his own making or genuine ridiculous bad luck? Because if it's of his own making he will never have a reasonably fit squad...
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Seems we do look better with fully fit players
IMG_0394.png
 
Finney Is Back said:
We had one of those immediately before we brought in Mourinho mate. He delivered our best average league finish under any manager, achieving CL 4 seasons out of 5 and Europa in his other season. However the chairman sacked him because he had the audacity to want to go through a (much needed) rebuild.
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No, the chairman sacked him because he had lost the plot and our performances and results had largely been poor for a year.
 
Muttley said:
What team doesn't look better with fully fit players?

What I'm pondering is whether we can keep them fit if we can get them all fit. This is a fully stacked season and it does worry me that we won't break the cycle all season. It's not like last season where we mostly had one game a week.
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You can’t assume that you can keep the, all fit
So you need more players
 
Muttley said:
What team doesn't look better with fully fit players?

What I'm pondering is whether we can keep them fit if we can get them all fit. This is a fully stacked season and it does worry me that we won't break the cycle all season. It's not like last season where we mostly had one game a week.
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Exactly. I remember we were decimated and plagued by injuries at the end of last season as well, and a few of us were a bit concerned about how the hell we were going to last playing almost double the amount of games (seeing as we lost in the first round in both cups as well) this season. It's not going too well, is it? Now, we can't know for sure that it's our training or style of play that does this - but it sure looks like it.
 
Daveeeeeeeed said:
Oh yes not saying it wasnt derogatory at all, it is derogatory but thats how i see them both. They are similar levels mate. Bent did a job, but not one for a top four side which we are aiming to be. Similar to Solanke.
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I get what you're saying, in that he wouldn't exactly be the top pick for where we want to be, but Bent was a real one-trick pony; I think Solanke is something of a level above that.
 
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