Franco Baldini

[NWND]

Baldini was brought in primarily as a negotiator as I understand it, as Levy found it hard to cope with dealing with transfers on his own during the Redknapp years, particularly as his wife was experiencing ill health.

Baldini was brought in to do a lot of the rubbish jobs that take a lot of time, such as dealing with agents, meeting players, negotiating contracts, setting up deals, dealing with the scouts, reading reports, dealing with the manager and coaching staff day-to-day. He was brought in also so that Levy could take a back-seat from the sporting element of the club and concentrate on the stadium etc.

Spurs still operate a transfer committee, so criticism of our transfer dealings might include Baldini, but the majority of them were not his signings. They might have input from him. I think Lamela definately was massively influenced by him, but Christian Eriksen has been mentioned as being scouted by us for quite some time before Baldini arrived. Soldado was identified as a target under Redknapp and supposedly Levy was a big fan of his. Paulinho has publically said that AVB wanted him and that he found it difficult as a result when AVB got sacked, as he was the one who pushed the club to sign him.

Capoue - GHod knows, he wasn't even on our radar, neither was Chiriches. So they possibly had an input from Baldini. Chadli too as i'm not sure where that link came from.

I've also posted something else about the way our style of targets has changed under Poch. I would say that Fazio particularly was definately a Poch pick. Ossie Ardiles said as much.

It's far too simplistic to say that Baldini is responsible for our transfer dealings. He isn't, he is part of the transfer committee and when targets are identified he's tasked with closing the deal.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Again I'll ask..

You said a DOF has many other roles, can you please ket me know a few?

He's effectively head of football operations. The idea is that he runs the football side of thing, whilst Levy concentrates on running the business (particularly as the stadium build comes under his remit).

I'm only speculating (based on other clubs' models), but I'd assume the following departments sit underneath Baldini:
- Coaching - direct report = Poch
- Scouting - direct report = Broomfield
- Academy - direct report = McDermott
- Medical - direct report = Diesel
- Recruitment/trading - his own portfolio

So while transfer negotiation is the area most directly attributable to him, it's really only a part of his role, and also one that is concentrated into 4 months of the year (June-Aug and Jan).

 

[billyiddo]

I think the onus is on those saying he isn't doing a good job to put forward the things they think he does and what he isn't doing well - or similarly on those saying he's doing a good job. so far the criticisim seems to amount to some of 'his' signings not been good enough... firstly we don't know which signings were his targets and secondly we don't know how big that one particular role is within his job. So it's hard to take it seriously at this point, just seems like spacegoating or maybe just an inherent dislike of the DoF setup based on preconceived ideas as to what it is they actually do.

All we really know is the guy in charge of the Club thinks it's a position which is required and also that he's not type of person to keep people around if they aren't performing to the required level. So for the time being one would assume Baldini is doing what is asked of him.

Some things i have noticed since his arrival is that we seem to have more transfer targets than we have been used to in the past and that we're targetting positions which need improving. We seem to move quickly to get deals done and don't spend too much time hanging out a deal for a player - if a deal looks unlikely to happen we cut our losses and move on to a different target. (Schneiderlin>Stambouli, Mussachio>Fazio, Benteke>Soldado etc)

 

[Kingdawson]

Ok so we're never going to agree on who were his signings and who were not(tbh I think every DOF in world football gets judged on the clubs signings but whatever). If he's not responsible for that...then he's responsible for the fees being that he's chief negotiater (or are we now saying he's not even that?)

26m on 28 year old soldado, 26m on Lamela (yes I still think he'll come good but that's a lot of cash), 17m on jenas Mark two?

Levy could have negotiated all that himself without the need of a DOF imo.

 

[Jordinho]

When it comes to the transfer fees and structuring of a deal Levy will be involved, he's not going to send anyone out there with a stack of blank cheques. Targets will be decided by committee and a big part of that process is the estimated value of a player and how much we're willing to pay. Baldini won't be the only one involved in negotiations either, but he'll do most of the talking with agents and general smooching needed to move a deal along and he has a huge network to tap into for info on players.

Selling clubs will do anything to drive up the fee, you'll have one or more agents involved looking for a cut and a player that probably doesn't know himself what he actually wants. It's all those hours spent talking in the phone he liberates Levy from.

We're one of the clubs that spends the most money on agents. I would expect Baldini to cover a lot of the work they did for us himself.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Clearly it doesn't work this DoF or they've got the wrong man in,after having £100 million to spend we've gone backwards as a side,we could have spent half that amount and kept caulker,huddlestone and siggy and be in a better position.

A committee to sign players feck sake,we shouldn't need that in place for a top six side.

 

[Mumorn]

Clearly it doesn't work this DoF or they've got the wrong man in,after having £100 million to spend we've gone backwards as a side,we could have spent half that amount and kept caulker,huddlestone and siggy and be in a better position.

A committee to sign players feck sake,we shouldn't need that in place for a top six side.

You don't know that we would be in a better position at all.

 

[billyiddo]

Clearly it doesn't work this DoF or they've got the wrong man in,after having £100 million to spend we've gone backwards as a side,we could have spent half that amount and kept caulker,huddlestone and siggy and be in a better position.

A committee to sign players feck sake,we shouldn't need that in place for a top six side.

We've taken more money in than spent and are in the same position as we started - with a whole host of players yet to show their potential - far from going backwards at this stage

 

[milo]

I seem to remember reading that an inordinate amount of Baldini's time in his first summer was spent negotiating with Real Madrid on Bale's sale and that he was not massively involved in incoming transfers but I cannot remember where I read this or how reliable the source.

 

[Kingdawson]

I seem to remember reading that an inordinate amount of Baldini's time in his first summer was spent negotiating with Real Madrid on Bale's sale and that he was not massively involved in incoming transfers but I cannot remember where I read this or how reliable the source.

This really reads like you're trying to credit him for the Bale transfer whilst also trying to distance him from everything else.

 

[milo]

This really reads like you're trying to credit him for the Bale transfer whilst also trying to distance him from everything else.

I'm not trying to credit him with anything. I'm just passing on something that I vaguely recall. Obviously, I'm not asking anyone to put much weight on a vague recollection.

From what I remember, once Bale's head had been turned there was a lot of negotiating to try and get Real Madrid to pay the money up front and for none of the fee being conditional on appearances etc. Baldini lead on this.

 

[Jurgen the German]

This really reads like you're trying to credit him for the Bale transfer whilst also trying to distance him from everything else.

I did think that too.

I have no problem with people arguing the case for the need of a DoF, But I don't like when almost all legitimate criticism is batted away if we question failed signings or the role they play at the club or the conflict that the system has led at the club in the last 10 years. I'm not just talking about Baldini, it was the same when Comolli was here. Even after he left, people were still backing him to the hilt even though he left us an unbalanced squad and we were struggling at the bottom of the table.

Just to be clear, I am not saying it CAN'T work or doesn't work in modern football because it clearly does, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right solution for our club which is ultimately what it boils down to, we shouldn't employ one just "because everyone else does".

EDIT: Please don't take this as a dig at Baldini as I believe we need to give him more time.

 

[jimmyb]

I did think that too.

I have no problem with people arguing the case for the need of a DoF, But I don't like when almost all legitimate criticism is batted away if we question failed signings or the role they play at the club or the conflict that the system has led at the club in the last 10 years. I'm not just talking about Baldini, it was the same when Comolli was here. Even after he left, people were still backing him to the hilt even though he left us an unbalanced squad and we were struggling at the bottom of the table.

Just to be clear, I am not saying it CAN'T work or doesn't work in modern football because it clearly does, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right solution for our club which is ultimately what it boils down to, we shouldn't employ one just "because everyone else does".

EDIT: Please don't take this as a dig at Baldini as I believe we need to give him more time.

Interesting that you should talk about the last ten years.

Over the past ten years, we have enjoyed our most consistently high sequence of league finishes since at least the early 80's......and possibly since the early 60's. This, despite the fact that the top positions in the league have never been less accessible and that the playing field has never been less level.

So despite the conflict that you believe the position of DoF to have brought to our club, it has clearly worked to an acceptable extent.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Interesting that you should talk about the last ten years.

Over the past ten years, we have enjoyed our most consistently high sequence of league finishes since at least the early 80's......and possibly since the early 60's. This, despite the fact that the top positions in the league have never been less accessible and that the playing field has never been less level.

So despite the conflict that you believe the position of DoF to have brought to our club, it has clearly worked to an acceptable extent.

It's factor and one that I don't ignore, but we also enjoyed relative success in that time frame without one too.

I've stated Baldini deserves more time, I do however think his signings should be evaluated, even at this stage. Every business conducts appraisals yearly and/or monthly.

 

[jimmyb]

It's factor and one that I don't ignore, but we also enjoyed relative success in that time frame without one too.

But even then, our success was primarily attributable to the players bought under the DoF system.

 

[Jurgen the German]

But even then, our success was primarily attributable to the players bought under the DoF system.

That's how you choose to look at it, others would argue the manager was more deserving of the praise. Again, I don't deny it did good for the club, but I don't like the fact that all the bad buys and the unbalanced squad factor is almost swept under the carpet i.e. buying strikers we didn't need, not identifying the need for a decent DM or not signing one, not signing a decent left winger.

 

[jimmyb]

That's how you choose to look at it, others would argue the manager was more deserving of the praise. Again, I don't deny it did good for the club, but I don't like the fact that all the bad buys and the unbalanced squad factor is almost swept under the carpet i.e. buying strikers we didn't need, not identifying the need for a decent DM or not signing one, not signing a decent left winger.

Are you still talking about Harry's time at the club? In which case, ever heard of someone called Gareth Bale?

As to Harry, I think we've seen enough of what he's done elsewhere to know that, if the squad had been composed entirely of payers that he signed, there's no way that we would have enjoyed the relative success under him that we did.

Another achievement for which you fail to credit the DoF system is the dramatic transformation of our youth system. I guess that that's because you probably don't follow the youth teams very closely (as evidenced by your post yesterday about the comparison between our youth system and Southampton's). That's fair enough but, from having a sorely neglected joke of a youth system prior to 2004, we really do now have one of the very best set ups in the country.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Are you still talking about Harry's time at the club? In which case, ever heard of someone called Gareth Bale?

As to Harry, I think we've seen enough of what he's done elsewhere to know that, if the squad had been composed entirely of payers that he signed, there's no way that we would have enjoyed the relative success under him that we did.

Another achievement for which you fail to credit the DoF system is the dramatic transformation of our youth system. I guess that that's because you probably don't follow the youth teams very closely (as evidenced by your post yesterday about the comparison between our youth system and Southampton's). That's fair enough but, from having a sorely neglected joke of a youth system prior to 2004, we really do now have one of the very best set ups in the country.

Lol don't try and give Comolli credit for that one. He was not signed as left winger, no one thought he would move to left wing let alone the advanced position he plays now. Credit where it's due for the signing, but trying to give him credit for signing him as a winger is going a bit too far.

You can criticise Arry all you like but he managed to get the best out of Lennon (who has regressed since he left) and Kaboul for example (also regressed) and we signed players like Sandro, VDV, Friedel, Parker, Palacios and Adebayor without the DoF system.

Re the youth system, I do follow them closely but it's a matter of opinion as to whether ours is any good, most of ours don't get in the team or get sold on.

Would you like to comment on the why he failed to sign a decent holding player after we sold Carrick? Or the issues it led to between managers such as Jol and Santini? It seems to me like he gets all the credit for the good things, and the bad things it's just a case of oh well, **** happens. I'm yet to see any poster actually address some of the criticisms of the system, they just want to discuss the good things.

EDIT: removed "ridiculous" description of Bale signing paragraph as it was a bit too confrontational.

 

[billyiddo]

Comolli wasn't a success but he was far from an unmitigated failure - which is all those who you claim 'defend him to the hilt' have said, both now and every time the topic crops up

 

[Gutter Boy]

Clearly it doesn't work this DoF or they've got the wrong man in,after having £100 million to spend we've gone backwards as a side,we could have spent half that amount and kept caulker,huddlestone and siggy and be in a better position.

A committee to sign players feck sake,we shouldn't need that in place for a top six side.

If it doesn't work, why does almost every big club in Europe have one? Including City and Chelsea - the two dominant EPL clubs of this era.

Coaching and recruitment are such different roles, you just don't get the same skillset in one person, and that's before we think about capacity. Not having one is like asking an ambulance driver to drive a patient to hospital, and then double up as their surgeon.

Surely a committee is a sign of due diligence? Much better than a whim of an individual with a life expectancy in the role of 1.1 year (the EPL average)

I did think that too.

I have no problem with people arguing the case for the need of a DoF, But I don't like when almost all legitimate criticism is batted away if we question failed signings or the role they play at the club or the conflict that the system has led at the club in the last 10 years. I'm not just talking about Baldini, it was the same when Comolli was here. Even after he left, people were still backing him to the hilt even though he left us an unbalanced squad and we were struggling at the bottom of the table.

Just to be clear, I am not saying it CAN'T work or doesn't work in modern football because it clearly does, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right solution for our club which is ultimately what it boils down to, we shouldn't employ one just "because everyone else does".

EDIT: Please don't take this as a dig at Baldini as I believe we need to give him more time.

The conflict between a DoF and a coach is always about timescales. DoFs look 2-5 years into the future, whereas coaches need players last weekend.

Redknapp was the beneficiary of Comolli, whereas the players didn't blossom quick enough for Jol or Ramos. In contrast, notice how just 2 years on, Walker/Naughton are the only Redknapp-era signings still at the club. We've had to have a massive overhaul because he never signed players for the medium-long term.

The solution is actually to keep a DoF in post for more than about 3 years, so a production line comes into place. That's what happens with the great DoFs like Monchi, Moggi, Begiristain, Corvino and Henrique etc.

Another achievement for which you fail to credit the DoF system is the dramatic transformation of our youth system. I guess that that's because you probably don't follow the youth teams very closely (as evidenced by your post yesterday about the comparison between our youth system and Southampton's). That's fair enough but, from having a sorely neglected joke of a youth system prior to 2004, we really do now have one of the very best set ups in the country.

This is key. About Arnesen's first act was to appoint John McDermott to head the academy, who in turn appointed Alex Inglethorpe as head academy coach. Those two have revolutionised our academy over the last decade.